Legendary Gem Revision... 2.6.7?

Today, I’m going to go over some simple numerical changes that would improve our gems that deal a flat amount of damage. Again, these are holding to “List 1” principles, meaning we can’t alter mechanics, just increase some of the numbers.

Gem of Efficacious Toxin, Mirinae, Pain Enhancer, Wreath of Lightning– I’m starting out by discussing these together since they each deal a flat amount of weapon damage. The damage amount should be raised, but how much? Well, consider that a newly minted level 70 Barb can pretty easily come into the possession of a Gavel of Judgement and Bracers of the First Men, which combine to make your HOTA deal 34,560% weapon damage per hit. You also attack 50% faster, meaning your actual dps is still higher, let’s call it 50k% weapon damage per second. Other classes have similarly easy ways to gain large amounts of damage at, or before, hitting level 70.

In comparison, a max rank Toxin deals 9500% damage over 10 seconds, max rank Mirinae 12000% per hit, max rank Pain Enhancer 10000% over 3 seconds, and max rank Wreath of Lightning 5000% per second. All of these numbers are incredibly paltry compared to the damage you can dish out as a fresh 70 with HOTA, with Impale, with Wave of Light, etc.

I don’t think it would be unreasonable for each of these gems to be dealing around 30k% weapon damage, per second, when leveled to max (Mirinae should be considerably higher, since it only hits a single target). This would increase their utility during the brief period between hitting 70 and acquiring a 6 piece set, and after that for those builds which utilize a global damage bonus. So, having said all that, here are individual recommendations for each gem:

Toxin– Increase “base” damage amount from 2000% damage to 60000% damage over 10 seconds. Increase upgrade amount from 50% to 1500% weapon damage per level. This would give you 285,000% weapon damage over 10 seconds at max level, or 28,500% per second.

While this seems like a ludicrously high number, it’s still far less than you can do using your skills and a couple of easy-to-obtain items. It’s also still less valuable than getting a decent multiplicative bonus to said skills from Trapped, Powerful, Zei’s, etc, so even at these hugely inflated numbers, this gem is nowhere near being overpowered.

Also, make the 10% secondary damage bonus multiplicative. It’s not a big deal, and it’s far less confusing to new players that way. Edit: realized this is a mechanical change.

Mirinae– To operate as the nuke that it ought to be, I think this gem should be doing around 300,000% weapon damage per hit at max level. So: increase “base” amount from 3000% to 75,000%. Increase upgrade amount to 1500% per level.

Pain Enhancer– Increase “base” amount from 2500% to 22,500%. Increase upgrade amount to 450% per level. This gives 90,000% over 3 seconds, at max level.

Wreath– Increase “base” amount from 1250% to 7500%. Increase upgrade amount to 150% per level. This gives 30,000% per second, at max level.

Again: while these numbers may seem absurdly high, that’s only because they have stayed constant for so long, while the damage of skills has hugely inflated in the meantime.

6 Likes

Only problem with these changes is that it likely makes lazy necro OP as all getup without much effort.

2 Likes

I have to laugh at your saying this.

Not because I do not agree, but you posted it right as I was thinking about it.

Yeah, as I said before, you have to increase all the DAMAGE a source of damage would do by 100X. This means you would do 2,850,000% weapon damage with Toxin every second. Mirinae would do 30,000,000% weapon damage when it procs. That would be a boss killer right there.

It would cause some interesting problems for Lazy Necro.

2 Likes

As insane as your numbers might be I still like your idea, but wouldn’t it make these gems mandatory in most builds?

No, like I said, even with a rank 150 Pain Enhancer, for instance, you’d still be doing less damage than a level 70 character with a couple legendaries, and no set bonus.

Even Lazymancer, I think, wouldn’t really be OP, though it would certainly be considerably stronger: a great speed build for sure.

It already is a good speed build, crunches everything on T16.

Agreed. With these buffs, it could speed some higher GRs as well, at least in solo.

I think this is the right approach–a List 1, List 2 approach. And your calculations make easy sense. Very much in favor of it.

I’d suggest adding Bane of Powerful to this as well and simply increasing its numbers to 30% / 20% respectively.

Some other small tweaks to gems:

Taeguk: This gem is in a pretty good place, but I would suggest either a small increase to stacks, or a slight increase to both damage and Armor bonuses.

Iceblink: Increase CHC bonus to 20%.

Simplicity’s Strength: Increase damage to 35% and healing to 4%.

Again, these are just List 1 tweaks–simple numbers increases. Thoughts?

3 Likes

Seems reasonable.

Hmm, well, the next sensible stack total would probably be 15, which would be a 50% increase in damage, so that might be excessive. You could change the “base” amount to 2.5% per stack, and the upgrade amount to .05% per stack. This would give you a 100% bonus at rank 150 (up from 80%). Remember that Taeguk is additive, so I don’t think this would be excessive. You could also up the secondary armor amount from 2% to 2.5%.

Reasonable.

Does the upgrade amount stay the same (i.e. 0.5% per level)? You’d have 110% at max rank rather than 100%. That’s… fine. I mean, this gem is quite good as is, for those builds that can use it. I would have said that it didn’t even need an upgrade, but a 10% increase is certainly not going to break the game.

3 Likes

I am going to use Lazy Inarius for an idea to work around the problems without causing the Lazy OP situation.

What if they removed the damage limitations on part of a set bonus. I will use our WW set as an example.

When you get the T6, only WW and its DD get boosted by 10000%. What if that one bonus was made so it was all of your damage done like Inarius. Rend would become competitive, and gems would be more important.

I know the damage increase would have to be changed a little so as not to compete with IK, but the idea is there. Oh, and you do not do anything with the rend bonus, hence why it would be competitive.

What about nerfing stuff?
Like Bane of the Trapped.

If you don’t want mechanical changes (which I personally find unreasonable, since they are currently working on new sets and legendary powers anyway, but that just as a side note), then what about nerfing it slightly for the sake of balance and so that it becomes less appealing to use it in almost every build.

1 Like

Nerfing is the worst logic possible and laziest at the same time, better make the rest gems much stronger, to be more competitive with Bane of the Trapped.

2 Likes

depends, I’d dare to say. If something is that much out of whack that boosting everything else will raise more/other/different issues … then putting the nerf-bat to use would be the much better choice. Not saying that it’s due in this case.

1 Like

or maybe:

Iceblink

  • Your Cold skills now apply Chill effects and your Chill effects now slow enemy movement speed by an additional 10.0%.
    - Upgrading increases speed reduction by 0.8% per Rank (Maximum Rank is 50).
    - You gain 15% increased chance to critically strike Chilled or Frozen enemies and increase damage against Chilled and Frozen enemies by 50% (Requires Rank 25).

Those require mechanical changes to the gem. Not bad ideas by any means, it’s just that Free and I are currently kicking back and forth a list of “simple” changes, which just involve increasing numbers (i.e. less coding for the CG team to do).

Eventually we’ll have 2 lists, one with these “simple” changes, one with more complex solutions.

What about Gem of Ease?

Gem of Ease

  • Monster kills grant 1000 additional experience, multiplied by difficulty
  • Upgrading increases bonus experience by 100 per Rank (Maximum rank is 150)
  • Level Requirement Set to 1 and Monster kills grant +250 experience to the item (Requires Rank 25)

I know the level 25 rank bonus sounds kinda stupid, but it would make every item level 1 and add 250 more experience per monster kill, just like you add a socket to weapons with ramaladni’s gift. It would serve just to powerlevel your alts even quicker.

1 Like

Let the primary and level 25 bonuses shift places.

Iceblink

  • Deal x% increased damage against chilled and frozen enemies +y% per level
  • Level 25 Bonus: cold damage slows down enemies by an additional 20% and has a 10% chance to freeze them.
1 Like

Making the good things not as good doesn’t automatically make the things that suck appealing. Sure, sometimes it is just a matter of numbers, but other times it’s more about the gimmick related to an item and its practicality.

Stuff like Bane of the Trapped is popular because both more damage is good and applying some form of debuff is easy, be it from the gem itself for melee or ranged usually having some kind of CC option/passive. The only real hard counter has been Juggernaut mobs. Meanwhile, if you go on to make this gem terrible, people will just swap it to Powerful, accepting the initial period of weakness until they kill an elite and then not really having to worry about it for the rest of the run. There’s not really any other comparative gem without having some sort of unreasonable gimmick tied to it like Taeguk for non-channel builds.

For me, I’ll just stick to a lot of gems needing buffs or maybe even reworks. Yes, this is the harder path from the dev perspective, but it’s also the one that needs to be done if you really intend to do something about the few gems that always do seem to be present in a build.

1 Like

Yeah, that would be a nice booster shot for channeling builds. I dig it.

A 10% increase seems pretty fair.

1 Like

There are just a few gems we haven’t really talked about yet.

Enforcer– Leave it as is? Or perhaps shift it to the Zei’s “schedule” of 20% “base”, 0.4% per level, so that it caps at 80% rather than 60%? This would make it clearly superior to Trapped for pet builds and would follow Jako’s suggestion of “every gem should have a purpose”. (i.e. it’s the best gem for pets).

Boyarsky’s Chip– Can we get somebody who’s fairly highly ranked in playing thorns Necro or thorns Crusader to weigh in here? Is buffing this gem necessary at all? Both those builds seem to do quite well as it is…

I think all the rest of the gems-- Hoarder, Ease, Trapped, Zei’s, Stricken, Esoteric, Gogok, Dreams, Soul Shard-- are all fine as they are. Soul Shard is garbage, but that’s probably for the best, since you can only get it once in a while and it probably would not be fair for it to confer a competitive advantage.

Anybody else got “List 1” thoughts on any of these gems? Anything else need to be revised upwards?