Legendary Gem Revision... 2.6.7?

General Discussion
1

Hello Fellows,

One thing Free and I never touched on in our proposal was revisions to legendary gems. While many of these items function well and are frequently used, others are rarely, or never, equipped on any character. Let’s discuss how that might be changed.

There seem to be three tiers of legendary gems.

Tier one is the gems that basically don’t need any help from us, the ones that are frequently used by all classes, either because they are near-obligatory for GR pushing (Stricken, Trapped) or uniquely suited to a particular task (Boon of the Hoarder). These are fine as they are.

Tier two is those gems that see occasional use, often in specialized situations. While some of these may need to be buffed in order to really become viable, others are probably fine as they are.

Tier three is the bottom of the barrel: the junk you never, ever see anybody using. Every gem in this tier needs some serious help.

TIER ONE GEMS
I don’t think any of these require much discussion, though I’m certainly open to having my mind changed.

Bane of the Stricken
Bane of the Trapped
Boon of the Hoarder
Esoteric Alteration
Gem of Ease
Legacy of Dreams (tentative)
Zei’s Stone of Vengeance
Gogok of Swiftness

TIER TWO GEMS

Bane of the Powerful - This has always seemed like a pretty solid item, though it sees only limited use because of the relatively low bonuses it grants.

Boyarsky’s Chip - I have never played any thorns build at a high level, so I’m interested to hear if people think the primary or secondary effects of this item need revision.

Enforcer- My impression is that this gem does an excellent job for a handful of builds that can use it, and is therefore probably fine as-is. Thoughts?

Gem of Efficacious Toxin- This gem sees use primarily in group play. Is that enough? Should it be more of a viable option for some solo builds? And if so, what revisions would make that possible?

Iceblink- Like Toxin, this gem is used almost exclusively in group play. Good enough?

Molten Wildebeest’s Gizzard- This gem has fallen out of use over time, and to the best of my knowledge is mostly used these days by Corpse Lance Necromancers. The general design of this item seems sound, but the numbers should probably be revised upward. When was the last time you cared about Life per Second as a stat?

Pain Enhancer- The attack speed is very useful, the damage is not. But maybe that’s good enough. Thoughts?

Simplicity’s Strength - Like Enforcer, this gem seems to do a great job for the few builds that deal damage via primary skills.

Taeguk- While this gem is used less than it once was, it is still a pretty solid item. Changing its damage bonus from additive to multiplicative would be a nice buff and might increase the amount of use it sees.

Wreath of Lightning- The primary ability is pretty bad, but the extra movement speed comes in handy for some speed builds, and Vile Charge. This item could probably use a little revision.

TIER THREE GEMS

Invigorating Gemstone- Have you ever used this gem? It’s terrible. While the secondary ability is not so bad (immunity to CC), the primary is incredibly inadequate. Perhaps all it needs is a massive numerical upgrade? If it could increase your healing 4x, would you use it? How about 10x?

Mirinae, Teardrop of the Starweaver - This saw use for a short time in the recent past when it was used by Inarius Necros. Then its proc rate got nerfed (or was it the proc rate of Bone Armor?) and it hasn’t been seen since. This gem could probably use a complete rework.

Moratorium- Another really bad one. While the design seems interesting, it’s hard to imagine needing more mitigation and taking this gem over, say, Esoteric. If the amount of staggered damage and the chance to clear staggered damage were both 50%, would anybody use it then? How about 75%? How about 90%?

Mutilation Guard- While this gem doesn’t seem that bad on the surface, it’s just obviously inferior to Esoteric in basically all cases. Part of that is the secondary ability, which is just not that useful. Perhaps it needs a secondary more closely related to the one on Esoteric. What if MG slowed the attack speeds of enemies within 25 yards by 75% when you were below 50% life?

Red Soul Shard- This gem is mostly just a collectible to get so you can use the transmog, so maybe it’s ok that it’s garbage.

A few final thoughts, before I open it up to discussion:

For some of these gems, especially those I’ve placed in tier three- would it matter if they could be socketed into your helm? Would you use Moratorium if it could go in your helm slot? Or what if it could go in your chest or leg slots? Would you use it then?

As always, I think simplicity is ideal. I think revisions that just change the numbers on these items, or perhaps tweak mechanics only slightly, are more likely to be taken seriously than those that reinvent the wheel. That said, Blizz has shown willingness to add completely new items to the game, so perhaps more extensive reworks are not off the table.

I look forward to the discussion. While debate and differences of opinion are necessary, let’s try to keep it constructive and positive!

33 Likes
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I think it’s secondary should move away from the 3 sec cast to a 30% chance (total). And the fact that it’s damage is Holy isn’t appealing either. It’s has to have a damage that benefits all.

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I think list is spot on.

Just I think Gogok can see more use thanks to new Captain Crimson Set and can move one tier up.

As some streamers stated (sVr?) Stone Gauntlets can be interesting if Invigorating were to nullify its effects. Haori (guaranteed crits at 25% health threshold) builds can be stronger with ever stacking armor and life regen-absorb from Wildebeest, this can grant lots of space to theorycraft.

My hopes for next patch is them finding a new way to utilize Broken Promises properly.

1 Like
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Like you pointed out I think Gogok should move to Tier 1. Its pretty solid and used in a ton of builds these days.

Powerful is super good early and does remain important in a lot of builds too. I don’t know how you would improve on it without making it too OP and usually Trapped overtakes it depending on the build.

Mutilation Guard might see some use in both support and main dps if it could be socketed elsewhere. And like mentioned maybe change the secondary to additional damage reduction below 50% or something like that.

The rest of tier 3 is pretty garbage and would really need complete overhauls I feel. They are my augment group haha.

2 Likes
5

Well, Gemstone is not complete garbage… as pointed out, CC immunity is solid and has its purpose. I use it for farming and bounties and it’s really nice that I don’t need to care about cc effects and some other nasty stuff. The primary effect is garbage, though…

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Taeguk should be multi instead of additive.
return proc rate of mirinae to before nerf
And gizzard should be bumped up as the grift levels have gone up so much that at over 100 gr it isnt very life saving at all

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Your and Free’s barb proposal was exceptionally well done and represent a comprehensive set of changes that would balance barbs.

I think simplicity is key. I think though one thing that is worthwhile to consider is a short priority list given the games age and Blizzard’s current priorities relative to development. We might get one or two class-specific item changes per patch if the last 5 patches are guides. We also may get item buffs (where I consider legendaries gems in that category). The main advantage of a single, class-agonistic item buff is that it has the potential to impact multiple build/meta/off-meta/speed runs for several classes rather than benefit a single build for one class. I think Captains CRimson is an example with all the theorycrafting that is going on. It certainly won’t change things for some classes but it will for some classes.

In this case relative to gems. To my knowledge, gems buffs have been exceptionally rare.

I suspect that legendary gems in helmets/other socket gear besides jewelry will not happen due to unintentional/intentional interactions that cause game problems or enhance power creep.

For individual gems that need a buff, I agree with all your assessment that Tier 3 gems could use some love/number changes. Tier 2 likely will remain as is considered that they do you have utility for several builds. For example, Boyarsky gem is “Tier 1”/essential for thorns builds.

2 Likes
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Thanks for getting the ball rolling, Rage. We’re back at it, folks. Time for round 2

Agreed on Tier 1 gems. Not interested in touching them.

Tier 2 gems that deal damage use older damage models that, by and large, aren’t modified by other multipliers or don’t modify skill damage, just weapon damage. I want to address those first, and they are as follows:

  • Powerful
  • Toxin
  • Iceblink
  • PE
  • Wreath

The tinkerer in me wants an overhaul to their damage-dealing affixes, something that provides synergy and utility. For example, Iceblink chills enemies and slows them down, but that is not, and has never been, very useful. In addition, the secondary affix is lackluster considering today’s power curve. As a result, I’d like to see Iceblink changed to something like this:

  • Your Cold skills attack 25% faster and apply Chill effects.
  • Rank 25: Chilled enemies take 50% increased damage from Cold skills

Something like this would allow solo players to benefit from the extra damage, but groups who use Cold skills could also benefit even if one player has the gem equipped. The above is just one possible way to make Iceblink more useful.

If, however, total revisions are off the table–and as Rage pointed out, we’re not sure they are–then we can go a simpler route. For example:

  • Your Cold skills now apply Chill effects and your Chill effects now slow enemy movement speed by an additional 5.0% .
  • Rank 25: Cold skills deal 20% increased damage.

In this instance, we simply change the Rank 25 affix to an elemental damage multiplier similar to what is found on bracers and amulets. This is a simple DPS increase for all Cold builds. It’s not terribly interesting, but it is useful and the code already exists. A similar template could be applied to the other elemental type gems:

  • Toxin: Poison skills deal 20% increased damage.
  • PE: Physical skills deal 20% increased damage.
  • Wreath: Lightning skills deal 20% increased damage

I want to add that this might decrease the value of Swamp Land Waders for non-WD builds since we would have a way to make up the additional 20% elemental damage found on the pants.

Powerful is an odd one, but an easy fix is to substantially increase its bonus vs elites or adding some DR to the primary affix to make characters stronger and tougher while the gem is active.

Thoughts?

9 Likes
9

Kinda like the idea of changing the lesser used ones to element skill type gems. Granted would need 1 to cover every element to be sure but its a decent way to give some “other” options. Powerful is kinda in a weird place since its a guaranteed 1st gem so its usable from the start until the others are found.

As for the gem socketing outside of jewelry. I’ve see the idea before where the jewelry only is removed and instead becomes a “unique 3” option where you can only have 3 leg gems socketed only but all options are available. Granted this removes having GoE in a weapon and the Soulshard in the helm unless they were made as special cases but it probably would be overpowered since logically chest and pants are always a free 5 sockets so gaining a primary affix over some All resist, main stat or armor is preferable.

1 Like
10

Incorrect. Damage source gems like Pain Enhancer are boosted by sets with global damage modifiers. Such sets include IK, Inarius, etc. and of course LoN/LoD.

Such gems are however underpowered. Even though for example Lazy Inarius build (where nearly all damage comes from PE) can easily do T16, those gems are not really useful damage dealers in higher difficulty.

1 Like
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Coming from the DH perspective:

Very useful for the UE DH - the extra elite damage/DR is helpful and it’s uptime is almost 100% after killing first elite pack…swapped for Stricken for pushing

Tier 1 for S6 for sure

Same

A must have for N6M4 hybrid builds

This may turn into a go-to gem for the new UE/Captain Crunch build

1 Like
12

Neat ideas. One thing that always stuck me was there is no “Fire” legendary gem.

I always liked the idea of “Enemies struck by Fire damage take X% damage over 3 seconds.”

Secondary Effect: Increase the damage of Fire skills by X%" or something similar.

13

It should be called “Trogdor’s Breath” and it has a chance to burninate the countryside and peasants.

6 Likes
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Like we don’t have enough dead villagers lying around everywhere???

Always wondered where they keep coming from…Like if I loot all the dead bodies today and then go back to the same spot tomorrow there are more dead bodies to loot.

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I’ve always thought we should have one increased damage gem for every type of damage. That would allow for a lot more customization and force players to make choices. Right now–at least for the barb builds I mostly play–there’s not a lot of choice involved.

16

This gem has a bad design while we need to skip all elite just show in group from 4-6 same elite pack we need luck enough to find elites show up in 1-3 elite minions extension. The time you get to kill elite one by one with thorns the wizard bazooka/vyr/necro/wd/dh/etc kill all of them in same time you spent to kill one of them (because they have area damage).

So to solve this my propposal it’s one additional effect:

Properties:

  • Adds 16000 [Thorns]
    • Upgrade: +800 Thorns damage per Rank.
  • [Taunt] the first enemy hit by Primary skills for 2 seconds. When you hit one elite minion your damage apply for each other elite minion from the same elite pack . (Requires Rank 25)
1 Like
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Hi guys,

What do you think about the following ideas?

  • all gems secondary stat level req. icrease to 50 from 25 (nowdays we can upgade gems much faster than anytime before)
  • add another gem attributes on lvl 100, for e.g remove 3s cooldown on mirinea gems or something:)

With this little gem tweak, some useless gems become more powerfull on higher levels i think level100 gems can easily reachable in solo or party and add plus motivation in endgame to upgrade gems:) what do you think?

Another idea e.g for taeguk upgade at level100 add 10% aoe damage/taeguk stacks or 10% crit damage or icrease the max stack.
Endless possibilities to increase the build diversity:)

Br Adam

Ps, sorry for my english, its not my native:)

3 Likes
18

I had some ideas on how legendary gems could be changed/adjusted, which I posted iirc over a year or two ago on the old forums.

I think it it could fit here as well to post it again if you don’t mind, so I simply copy and paste it…

================================

Invigorating Gemstone (the healing gem)
Increases all sources of healing by x% + y% per level OR regenerate x life per second + life per second per level
Lvl 25: reduces the cooldown of your healing potions by x seconds

Molten Wildebeest Gizzard (the maximum life gem)
Increases your maximum life by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: Upon receiving fatal damage, you heal to 100% life instead – effect can only occur all xxx seconds

New Gem (the movement speed gem)
Increases your movement speed by x% + y% per level (not influenced by movement speed cap)
Lvl 25: you can no longer be crowd controlled OR You can move unhindered through enemies

New Gem (the defensive gem)
Increases armor and resistances by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: while being below x% maximum life, you take x% less damage

New Gem (the AoE gem)
Adds x% + y% area damage per level
Lvl 25: increases area damage radius to x yards OR Increases the chance that area damage triggers from 20% to xx%

New Gem (the fire gem)
Increases your fire damage by x% + y% per point
Lvl 25: dealing fire damage to an enemy causes it to burn for x seconds so it takes xx% more damage from fire

Iceblink (the frost gem)
Increases frost damage by x% + y% per point ???
Lvl 25: frost skills slow enemies by an additional 20% and have a 10% chance to freeze them

Gem of Efficacious Poison (the poison gem)
Increases poison damage by x% + y% per point
Lvl 25: Enemies hit by your poison skill become poisoned and deal 10% less damage and take 10% more damage for 10 seconds

New Gem (the lightning gem)
Increases damage of lightning skills by x% + y% per point
Lvl 25: lightning skills have a x% chance to stun the target for 1 second OR dealing damage with a lightning skill has a xx% chance to emanate a chain lightning for xxx% of the initial damage done.

New Gem (the arcane gem)
Increases arcane damage by x% + y% per point ???
Lvl 25: ??? I had no idea for that

Bane of the Powerful (the anti-elite gem)
Increases damage against elites by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: you take 20% less damage from elites

Moratorium (the stagger gem)
35% of all damage taken is instead staggered and deald to you over x seconds + y seconds per level
Lvl 25: 10% chance on kill and x% chance on attack to clear all staggered damage

Some more controversial changes

Bane of the Trapped (the CC gem)
Increases your damage against slowed enemies by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: triples the damage bonus against enemies under hard CC effects (stun, freeze, fear, charm etc)

New Gem (the gem against incoming ranged damage)
Reduce damage taken from ranged attacks by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: get a permanent Slow Time Bubble around you that travels with you and slows enemies and projectiles by x%

Mutilation Guard (the gem against incoming melee damage)
Reduces damage taken from melee attacks by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: ??? had no idea for that, maybe makes you immune to CC’s

New Gem (attack speed gem)
Increases your attack speed by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: every successful attack increases your attack speed by an additional x%, stacking up to 15 times

New Gem (the cooldown reduction gem)
Reduces all cooldowns by x% + y% per level
Lvl 25: every time you hit an enemy with a resource spending attack, one of your cooldowns reduces by x seconds

2 Likes
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Clarification: They are, but they boost weapon damage, not skill damage, and thus are worthless regardless of global modifiers. The gems under discussion are, for all intents and purposes, worthless as sources of damage.

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I like this topic, because a lot of legendary gems are totally useless and the only purpouse is get them in early GR to troll you because you don’t get the gems you need for your build early…

Molteen wildebees’t gizzard

by far my favourite gem in the entire game, since it was released i use it in all my characters (i’m that used to the healing this gem provides that when i don’t use it i feel just weird) , the healing it provides its really cool.

I only play hardcore so for me the utility this gem is big, because is the only gem that actually buffs your healing to a decent amount, this thing helps me a lot to not proc my fake death passive often, also when i do a dumb move like eat a mob spear or spike the shield of this gem + the fast healing keeps me at full health fast enough to not proc if i get hit again, also its pretty decent against unavoidable chip damage that elites tend to do. The problem with this gem is that you are losing an offensive gem, and the healing effect its pretty effective but i think that if they buff the LPS gain per rank would be more impactful and overall better, because 1k per rank is not that big at the endgame, at level 90 you have 100k LPS thanks to this gem, this + paragon and some skills that buff LPS, you reach about 125-140k LPS depending in how high is your gem, (and the shield its about 250k most times), if they double the LPS per level a level 90 gem would give you 190k LPS, + paragon and other LPS bonuses you should be at about 200k LPS, considering that an endgame character has about 700k HP, this gem actually recovers your entire HP in few seconds, also the shield would be way more impactful (considering that the shield works like charm to not get oneshoted by minor damage).

Another important thing about this gem is that the shield can take hits and you can still keep the pride fall or PTR squirt necklace on, i think this is a decent mechanic.

I prefer using this gem before esoteric or mutilation guard because this gem has no diminishing returns like esoteric has, and mutilation its pretty bad for ranged characters.

Invigorating Gemstone

This gem its just terrible, outside of the CC immunity (which you can get from AC, WOTB, archon, vengeance, etc) you get nothing, because the healing effect its just weak compared with LPS gem. IMO this gem needs a complete redesign, probably something that increases your vitality % + keep the CC immunity thing.

Mutilation Guard

The idea of this gem its actually pretty decent, the problem is that the rank 25 bonus is just terrible, why a defensive gem would need an inferior version of ilusory boots :man_facepalming:
I think a good way to fix this gem is change the rank 25 to a flat 30 % ranged damage reduction, because i think this gem should be the physical version of esoteric alteration, and nowadays offers zero mitigation against ranged enemies, so that thing makes the gem really weak.

Bane of the powerful

This gem is good on paper, sadly has some problems, the first one is that increasing rank in this gem after lets say 50 is no longer useful, because only adds duration, and after rank 50 you can probably keep the gem 100% uptime after the first elite kill.
The second problem in this gem is that the 20% increased damage is just weak, probably a good way to fix it is add 0,2% increase damage per rank, with this idea this gem will still be inferior to stricken, zei or trapped, but at least the gap will be less, and will be actually a good idea keep leveling this gem after +50.

2 Likes