Which should also very much not exist.
Kadela is horrible. Cube is horrible.
They pretty much are similar to trading. Not as powerful and easy of course, but similar concepts.
If PvP is going to hurt the main game, then dont have PvP.
Or, let people create characters specifically for some kind of arena PvP where you can pick and choose perfect items etc. That would be the esport solution. No grind needed for the pure PvPers.
Trading is not needed for “fair PvP”.
Trading does not offer any substantial human interaction. It can be nearly automated, and is nearly automated, in the games that offer trading.
People seeking human interaction in Diablo should… wait for it… play together.
Not allowing trading, and only item sharing between people who were at the kill, encourages way way more human interaction than trading could ever hope for.
Leaderboards are completely irrelevant. And imo should not exist either. But even if they do, they have nothing to do with why trading is bad. Leaderboards do not affect gameplay in any direct way.
It doesn’t hurt anything. Just PvP feeds from trading and trading feeds from PvP. They are beneficial for each other. However, if you cut off trading, players that like PvP will be inclined to PvE and loot more often, and this can be weary at the long run. It is not entirely a bad thing if you think PvP is incorporated to the main game through challenges but still a dilemma.
True, but needed for a fast going 5 minute fun being irrelevant to the whole circulation of gameflow or isolated from it. If I like PvP and can not get my PvP build going in a short time, then two options here; I quit the game abit early to return to it or after a while I give up and try my best at PvE. Trading may look scary, but shortening the path helps the distinctive nature to apply.
Just because it can be automated you shouldn’t set aside small deals you can do with friends. You can not always play together for timeline differences with the other end of the world but you can come together, do some trading and go on your own way until next time.
Then what exactly are you playing a very low interaction genre for? Leaderboards are one of the staples as game revolves around PvE, maybe the most important ahead of PvP. Trading is just an alternate endgame where you can exchange and interact to get what you want.
People do that for a small challenge. What is even an ARPG without challenging anything beyond clicking at a screen and watching numbers grow? If I wanted something like that, I could always play Clicker Heroes instead of an ARPG or any other MMO.
well tbh i couldn’t care less about leaderboards
like, this isn’t a job, this isn’t a competition, i wanna have fun and not stress myself out xD
however i definitely support everyones desire to appear somewhere up there in the list
but if this list is an argument for people to remove gameplay features because it makes the competition “unfair” then i have to say the list goes second, the game goes first
i am just playing to have fun
it’s fun to create different characters with interesting skill trees, finding items and combining all of that to increase your effectiveness as a killer and see it all play out in an immersive, action packe and visually beautiful way
games like that are an art and take years of worktime of hundreds of people and i don’t think you should reduce that to player tier lists or compare it to mobile clicker games
Maximizing what you invest into, isn’t that the point of a trade ?
If I got 4 Primarily poison-damage pieces in my gear and say my Helm is a legendary that has lots of good stuff but it’s primary “theme” is fire, then I’d probably want to trade it for another “primarily poison theme” piece ?
I mean there’s a whole “backstory” of WHY you’d like to trade a something for other something, and not always going for a “BiS” should be the only way… ?
I mean who cares, if a Rare of some drop has say like +30% Damage over time and say another affix of + 2 maximum stacks of poison damage, then I’d want to trade for it ?
Don’t see the issue there tbh, just make the game where the “special item” “power creep” isn’t so obvious/big… , there are plenty of games already where Legendaries are pretty damn good but not always mandatory thing, don’t see the problem of this
After all that’s what defined a good itemisation system, doesn’t it ?
As for the other part (both sides need to participate with a token) absolutely, that’s the whole point of it, make players “strategize” their “timings” (trade too early and a better piece may appear later, trade too late and perhaps all the best deals were already made, I mean that’s a part of the whole experience in general isn’t it ? )
Over time, I feel like the only real viable trade situation is the one where you want to help a friend. And I don’t mean some random dude you have on your FL that you talk to maybe once a month, if that. Trade doesn’t keep PvPers. Good PvP keeps PvPers. Diablo never had good standalone PvP, requiring player arbitrated guidelines to make it work somewhere close to fairly. Hell, most online games don’t have good PvP when you analyze finer details.
That said, let’s take a page from D3 and tweak it a little.
As you play with people on your friend’s list who have been on it for at least a week, a special coin will start dropping. This coin will only drop if you’re actually playing within range of each of other (1-2 screens) and goes into a virtual inventory represented on your FL next to their name (Timer instead if not droppable). All other items will then have a friend coin cost, with the weaker/lower level or rarity it is, the cheaper it is. In order to give a desired item to your friend, you must sacrifice your friend coins. The item itself doesn’t have to drop while playing with them, but D3’s 2 hour window can also exist here to save on coins and further encourage playing together.
Pragmatically, this prevents a veteran dumping an arsenal of items on a completely new player and ruining the intended experience. Rate of coin acquisition can be tweaked relative to how comfortable the devs feel an item can move between friends. A reasonable coin cap could also be included so it’s generally only 1 or 2 really good items per stock. With game/party size being limited, shared coin generation is also limited. The proximity requirement is to also emphasize playing with people and not merely being in the same party/game. This adds a slight layer of complexity to those who intend to RMT, as bots mustn’t do their own thing in the same party/game, which partially minimizes their overall loot saturation. The prohibitive coin cost of more valuable goods also makes it so you can’t just swipe your credit card and get something instantly. You’d first have to befriend their mule a week and possibly play together for a month+ just to afford it. No sane player would want to hand over the keys to their account for that long, either. Subsequently, it does add a layer of trackability for Blizzard when people randomly friend up and rush to trade something expensive, possibly defriending after.
Obviously, I’d rather RMT or P2W not be a possibility at all, but actually playing with friends should still have its perks.
Trading is pretty much confirmed, so at this point you might aswell look towards other ARPGS if it’s that annoying. However, I’d say offering an alternative mode, like NO TRADE MODE, is a decent compromise. Let people choose like they do in POE.
I guess that’s fair if it doesn’t split the community and is just disabling your character from trading
But people will be like “they have an advantage over me now”
It’s not easy to please everyone
And if it does split the community, so what? Some people want to trade while others don’t. Making them play in the same server will make zero sense when there will likely be a ladder and competition involved. I suspect the playerbase of D4 to be big enough for it to not really be a problem.
Okay. But if we put it this way, I’d say, that this majority doesn’t even need THAT. 99% of those who bought and played Diablo III (all those 15-20+ millions) played Normal Difficulty once, maybe Nightmare too, watched all cinematics, maybe tried a couple of more classes, and then uninstalled the game for good. They never even get to this “orange rain” and so don’t care about that at all.
If D4 try to earn smth by MTX they’ll need to think a lot about hardcore players, those who ll play a lot. POE works this way, hardcore players - not causals - spend thousands of bucks on MTX.
There are tons of other gaming companies that would fall under this law as well that still deal in online transactions that have not stopped their item stores. Hell even WoW with their tokens would potentially fall under this law and they haven’t stopped.
Like I said, it may have had a small part to play, but it if were profitable enough, the AHs would still be around.
Def one concern of mine is that they are going to MTX D4 to death. And that’s even worse than the old D3 AH trade economy. It would actually be better for them to limit trading if they’re just going to directly sell loot boxes or something else to help players overcome RNG.
They’ll never get the amount of money cosmetics alone and be like Fortnite, but lord knows they’ll probably try to make it up elsewhere.
If this is the route that are going to go, I doubt these details will ever make it to the blog posts. Time will tell…
Definitely a legitimate concern imo. Now thankfully by what’s been shown and/or told to us thus far; things like gear transmogrification and some mounts (including mounts items) will be attainable via in-game activities.
But there’s still plenty that we don’t know how mtx will be handled beyond what was stated at 2019 blizzcon, in which it was stated that most will be cosmetic; followed by expansions and/or dlcs for new classes.
I love both games, D3 a little more. But this is certainly a misinformed thread based on your dislike for a community more then the function. Trade is great it gives a lot of reason to keep playing, not only that it’s another outlet to obtain the gear you want. I’d wager there are far more people who want trade then are against, which is great because you sound like an idiot but that’s normal for Blizzdrones and the people who typically post on these forums.
I was reading the D2R forum yesterday some of the kids are saying that they will not purchase D4 because to them it looks like D3. These are the some people who are complaining about D2R now.
If the D2 fanboys do not care about D4 that may free up server space for the rest of us.
, there are plenty of games already where Legendaries are pretty damn good but not always mandatory thing, don’t see the problem of this
)