Want to know why? Just pop over to the D2R forums and once you sort through all the threads about the server issues (which is ironically at least in part caused by the way people play the game for the economy), just read some of the trading/economy threads. Especially the ones where people complain that it’s too easy for new or inexperienced players to find out the value of items and now they can’t be scammed and ripped off.
Trading ruins the game. The “economy” becomes far more important than the actual game itself and is the only thing that matters. It incentivizes the worst behavior in players. Whatever fun could have been had in the game is ruined.
D3 used to have trade and an economy. And all that happened was everyone played the auction house instead of the game, and drop rates of useful items for players were deliberately suppressed. Then when the AH was removed and players were finally able to find useful gear to increase their power in the game from playing the game, it became WAY more fun. Players could actually play the game.
Logging on to play the auction house, or some other trade interface is not fun, it’s a waste of time. And no, the argument of maybe find something that is useful to someone else that you can then trade to get what you want is not a counter argument. Now you have to learn the value of whatever item you have, then do the work to do the actual trade to get what you should have been able to find on your own to begin with. It’s a giant unfun waste of time.
No trade in D4 please. No “economy”. Please don’t listen to the angry D2 fanboys who will never be happy with whatever D4 ends up becoming no matter what.
Trading is a game all its own; a game within a game. D4 will be an MMO so trading will be a part of it. I’m looking forward to trading with you, and you, and you, and yes, you too.
You nailed it with this. Some of them have been complaining about D3 for over 9 years. The D2R forum is a great place if you like to watch kids fighting over a toy.
My only real concern with D4 right now is whether it will have reliance on multiplayer mode. I want to be able to do the same things a group can do, solo, even if it becomes increasingly more difficult – I do not want “boss mode” to mean “great, where are three hundred other people?”
If it does rely on MP, then trading seems required.
The problem with trading is the rarest items become the “currency” by which everything else is measured. The rarest items are the hardest to find, so most players have to trade for them, but you probably don’t have another rare item to trade for that, so basically you get stuck in a loop where the “rich” get richer and the poor get poorer.
In short trading sucks because the items you need don’t drop. Like High Runes in D2.
Every MMO I’ve played trading is optional. It’s mostly cosmetics and tradegoods for professions, so a timesaver at best. D2 and D3 before it was removed it was a “necessary” evil to get endgame items. That’s an idiotic concept.
They already said it is going to be in D4, so guess you aren’t buying.
Everyone’s definition of fun is different. Early ROS, DH sentries was a big build, but you needed Taskers to make it work. Clanmate who was a very good player and played a ton grinded on low difficulties trying to get one. We carried him on higher difficulties (which he hated) for hours on end and still no Taskers. After not getting one for a couple of months and seeing many in clan chat get on in other games, he quit. Have him on my friends list and still haven’t seen him play D3 in 7 years.
Blizz later “fixed” this problem that occurred with several builds by nerfing drop rates and making legendaries rain from the sky. Now you can get all 13 pieces for your build within 6 hours of the season starting and skip 20 difficulty levels, then have decently rolled ancient versions of them 20-40 hours into the season. Now the game gets real fun as you mindlessly grind xp and every 20-100 hours maybe, if you are lucky, get an upgrade. Real FUN!!!
I am perfectly fine with D4 not having trading, but they need to satisfy 2 conditions:
There is no must have meta gear for your build in order to do end game content. Meta gear should be there to make your build more efficient, not game deciding. Players should be able to do end game content with secondary or tertiary gear, but at a slower pace until they find the meta gear. There needs to be a smooth gearing process.
They need a gearing process that isn’t based solely on RNGesus blessing you and is not slot machine gambling (Kadala, Mystic, Cube). Basically, you can save up enough mats to craft a randomly rolled piece of gear you want.
Using D3 as an example: say you have to upgrade 50 bows to get a Yangs on average. RNGesus may give you one on the first roll or the 250th roll. I would want an option where you can use 50x the upgrade mats to straight get one.
This replaces trading for me. When I traded in D2, I traded lower items for currency to get the item I wanted. I was slowly building my way to the gear RNGesus wouldn’t give me. If I play for 40 hours and get nothing, I feel like I wasted my time. If I play for 40 hours and am building towards something I want, I feel productive. I am fine with them having the slot machine mechanics in the game for those that enjoy those things, but I want an alternative in there too.
This is Pure Unadulterated BS. Every build that’s used in endgame should be relatively easy to get. There doesn’t have to be tertiary builds because everyone gets to play the real build. Anything less and folks are only playing half a game as late as endgame which makes absolutely no sense!
Well we already know that we cannot do the World Boss solo. Some players will have a very difficult time in the Fields of Hearted solo. They may have been misleading when they said you can do the game 100% solo. They should have said most of the game. I really only wanted two things for D4, top down view and solo. It looks like I will get most of it. I do not care about trading or any type of an AH.
This exactly. Nobody should have to rely on OTHER players to find what they need to progress in the game. Or their bots and scams and cheating and everything else that comes with it.
I just want to play a game. I get enough reminders of the sucky economy in real life, can we not have it in the game too?
I’ve used WoW gold to finance my gaming habits, it actually paid for this RoS expansion, in fact I haven’t paid real money for any Blizzard games or subs since Warlords of Draenor was released 7 years ago.
So for me it was beneficial, less than an hour a day on the AH for free gaming, even though I don’t play WoW anymore.
Is it really a chore though?
Yep, it can be for sure and it is indeed a game unto itself that is far removed from the fantasy world we normally play in.
Trading has already been confirmed for Diablo 4, albeit limited in some way and form. So long as it doesn’t become a necessary tool to use in order to progress and/or upgrade (min-maxing excluded), I’ll be fine with it in Diablo 4.
So like D3 where after 6 hours of gameplay you have all the 13 pieces of gear you need for your build and all other gear is just salvage trash. The loot hunt almost immediately devolves into looking for slightly better pieces of the 13 pieces of gear you have. That is a dreadfully boring loot hunt.
Let’s compare D2/D3 loot hunt. In D2, I can clear hell without Enigma, arachnids, magefist, spirit shield, etc. I can use second or third BIS and still get through Baal on hell. I can even farm hell. Slower than BIS pieces, but yes, I can farm it. As I get upgrades and slowly get BIS pieces, I work towards a speedy BIS build. This is a smooth gearing process where along the way a lot of gear has the potential to be an upgrade.
In D3, the secondary or tertiary gear option is complete trash. Take your favorite build, remove all the gear pieces and play with the next best option in each slot. If you are lucky, you are doing T2. Put your BIS gear on with terrible rolls, no paragon, no leg gems, and you can cruise T16. There is no smooth progression. This is why we have Haedrig’s gift. This is why we have the cube and Kadala to give us the BIS pieces so fast. The loot hunt in this game is so dreadfully boring because 99% of what drops is almost immediately trash.
Should D4 have nearly impossible to solo get BIS gear such as Enigma, Chains of Honor, etc. No. Should D4 have immediate gratification BIS gear where a few hours into it everything else is worthless. No. It needs a system where you have to grind some and actually play the game to get through gearing process.
I want a loot hunt, not an experience grind simulator.
In other words, “Let me play with subpar builds, because I like playing with subpar builds and wouldn’t like to play the real build ever!”
Yeah, excuse me, but I prefer to play with the real builds not some junk build that can be thrown together but is much much much much slower than the real build I want to play.
With Trading, the loot hunt is non-existent. Why hunt for something that most likely won’t drop when you can hop on whatever trading apparatus and bingo, the build is there.
I like getting my stuff in game. But let me tell you, in over 10 years of playing D2 I never saw a high end rune. Well, I got a Gul once, but one in 10 years? Yeah, wasn’t fun and it’s why I quit as soon as bought D3.
LOL. Nice exaggeration. Where did I say you would never get the BIS gear? Where did I say you would be stuck on lower gear forever?
I want a loot hunt where I actually have to stop for a second and actually look at the gear to see if it is better than what I have. I want to have the excitement after a few days or a week of grinding to actually find my first Yang’s, arachnids, whatever the BIS piece is. A game where you get that instant gratification by getting everything very fast creates gear numbing for me.
If you want a game where you log on, and hit the “collect BIS gear” button, that is fine. I want to actually enjoy the loot hunt.
Some of them have been complaining about D3 for over 9 years. The D2R forum is a great place if you like to watch kids fighting over a toy.