Fascists always say that. “Fascism isn’t the problem it’s people that run it”. Wonder why only bad people aspire to be fascists? Maybe it’s because the idea is just stupid.
LOL!
So, you delete the post. Maybe you’re not so proud of fascism after all.
That’s what I’m trying to explain lol. It’s not that white people automatically receive different punishments based on their race, it’s that white people generally grow up richer, and so they don’t develop the sort of lifestyle and mindset that land people in prisons. And then, even if people like that do turn to degeneracy, they’ve generally got no priors and a bunch of associates vouching for their character. If Brock Turner grew up in a trailer park and went to juvi instead of Stanford, he’d have been given a much harsher sentence too. Who you are as a person matters in legal procedures, and the more privileged people in society generally have the luxury to be more pleasant people.
Also, I deleted the last post so I can ping you with this one lol. I stand by the idea that all humans must be kept on as tight a leash as possible for any sense of decency to exist in a society. It’s why there is so little decency in the world nowadays. The concept of accountability is sort of running out of steam in all the 1st world countries, sadly.
Finally, I want to propose to you a really fun concept. Have you considered the possibility that Fascism is always tied to unreasonable racial hatred, because brainwashing through hatred and the chance to abuse a societal “other” is the only way to convince people to allow a government to hold them to a higher standard and stricter rules? That’s just how worthless and disgusting we all naturally are, lol.
This flies in the face of the facts. There problem is more to do with class than race. White folks can afford better lawyers, generally before any biases even present themselves and the biases just exacerbate the problem.
You’re arguing that rich people deserve better treatment because they’re rich. Which is dumb and you know it.
But going further, I wonder why since pot is legal in a bunch of states now, why the prison system hasn’t released all those “drug pushers” sitting in prison for selling stuff in less quantity than folks can walk into any dispensary and buy.
Oh yeah, it’s because prisons went all privatized and there’s more profit to be made to keep them there.
Anyway, I’m not going to argue this further. It’s pointless.
Feel like we’re saying the exact same thing…? Dunno why there’s an argument at all lol. I said rich people aren’t as susceptible to turning to crime, and on average white people are richer, that’s all there is to it. Don’t see where “rich people deserve better treatment” come in. It’s “rich people GET better treatment” as a statement of fact, and that certain races being overall richer is too big an issue to be pinned on the justice system alone.
Also, regardless of whether you respond, I want to clear up your logical error, for the benefit for like the 5 people that use this forum. This:
Is because crime isn’t simply about doing something that is forbidden by the rules. It’s more doing something that is forbidden by the rules, when the rules forbid it. Rules changing over time is natural, but just because a rule will get erased from the books in a decade, doesn’t mean you get to just ignore it in the here and now. Remember the Prohibition Era? Same thing there.
I’m aware of the intent behind the phrase. That doesn’t stop the phrase from being factually incorrect.
For example, I wrote what, 77 words in that post? According to Word? And it spawned an entire argument between like 4 people that even evoked Godwin’s Law. (Or at least, I saw the word fascism thrown around when I skimmed through it - possible it might not have been a literal Godwin’s Law but it’s close enough in my book)
Meanwhile I wasn’t trying to be inflammatory in the slightest - I was giving an honest opinion about the actual, factual power of words. It’s not JUST the words, but the meaning behind them, and also the reception thereof.
We all have ideas. But none of us, that I know of, have developed consistent telepathic capabilities. We don’t know what’s going on in each others’ heads. So you have to EXPRESS your ideas to get stuff done. The earliest, most fundamental methods of this, are via utilizing sound and sight. Music and paintings. Words, are like one single rung above that on the pyramid upon which societies are built.
Words are the expression of ideas. Ideas mean nothing unless acted on. Words are both an action, AND a call to action. They’re incredibly powerful.
Are you actually going to make me quote, plain and simple, where you literally expressed a desire for people YOU deem to be “trolls,” to get violently shot and killed via rampaging maniacs?
Cuz I’ll do it, no skin off MY back. You’re the one who said it:
When the people in power make the laws, they don’t necessarily have to abide by any semblance of morals, ethics, or humanity. That’s kind of why we have an entire third of our government devoted EXCLUSIVELY on interpreting laws according to the code of morals, ethics, and humanity represented in the Constitution.
Police is vital, sure, but all the statistics show that “brutal prison systems” does a hell of a lot more harm than good compared to actually having a decent prison system that goes for rehabilitation rather than punishment.
I have little to no faith in humanity, but even I know that’s a load of bull. It’s not the threat of punishment that makes me follow the laws I follow, it’s the fact that I find the actions reprehensible in themselves.
What I’m reminded of, is in Shawshank Redemption, when the librarian struggled with and ultimately unalived himself over the fact that prison WAS his “normal” because he had been there so long. And then Red also felt tempted the same way when HE got out.
It’s something that actually happens IRL, too. “Career criminals” who do stuff JUST to get caught, because prison’s 3 hots and a cot, and better the devil you know compared to the one you don’t. Really sad stuff.
Actually, it wasn’t Godwin’s Law. What elicited the “fascism” comment was an actual fascist comment. That was later backed up with “The big (and only) problem with fascism is it isn’t a meritocracy and the countries that implemented it (paraphrasing) didn’t implement it right.”
He later deleted the post so I can’t quote it directly.
Edit:
And maybe just maybe before you accuse someone of using “Godwin’s Law” you should actually read the comments instead of “skimming” them. It’s funny though, that this “argument between 4 people” is where one (me) was agreeing with you and giving examples like you have and instead of you taking the “heat” for your “totally inoffensive” comment it was someone backing you up and then you decide to throw me under the bus.
What I said is
You know exactly what I mean. No need for you to be coy. I’m just trying to express my views on the matter while still adhering to the forum rules.
Yeah, and then we get to the inevitable conclusion that humanity must be policed with maximum harshness just to remain civil, but humanity itself also can’t be trusted with the power to police, so the very concept of society is doomed from the start and we really just need and deserve Injustice Superman. It’s sorta all a pointless point, because all I’m saying is that humans in general needs to be constantly in pain to behave. The fact that we can’t be trusted to regulate ourselves only serves to make matters worse, but doesn’t disprove me.
And finally, over here:
lol that already makes you like the top 1% of the world in terms of morality, and believing others are like you also already means you have all the faith in the world for humanity. You just don’t know it because you’re too sheltered. You can check out some of the school districts where half the kids have criminal records by 7th grade, but I’ve been working at a place like this, so let me give you the answer: pain is the only thing that promises good behavior.
Sorry, fella. The fact that some abused kids grow up to be abusers is in direct conflict with that statement.
They grow up to become abusers because society isn’t watching them close enough, and giving out pain accordingly, simple as that. Basic concept of child psychology is that consistency is key. The moment you let people get away with bad behavior once, they’ll think they can get away with it again. Which ultimately returns to my original point of humans not deserving privacy, much less the absolute anonymity of the internet.
LOL!!!
That’s just not true.
But seriously, I know getting trolled can be tough which goes to prove the point that words do in fact hurt people. You are a prime example.
Uh, oaky, and how is that relevant to my one and only point of fear and pain being necessary for humans maintaining any semblance of goodness ?
Because the vast majority of people are good people and I’m pretty sure that you’ve had run ins with those who weren’t and so you’ve decided that “since someone hurt me all of humanity has to pay the price.”
For your information, contrary to your belief it isn’t “the threat of jail” that keeps most people from being criminals but those who were brought up with strong morals to begin with. But yeah, I’m sorry you were hurt. I wish it hadn’t happened to you but I hope someday you grow up and realize that it isn’t society’s fault you were hurt but a damaged person.
It’s really a shame that damaged person in turn damaged you.
…Not to point fingers or anything, but projecting much lol?
Let me redirect you to this message I had for another buddy on here.
There’s a world outside the upper middle class American bubble lol. It’s called the actual world, and it’s a place where droves of literal children will lie and steal and vandalize and share video recordings of other children performing unspeakable acts as a “prank”. That’s why I know the nice rich neighborhood I grew up in is statistically insignificant, something so rare that it’s % can be rounded down to 0.
Uhm, you assume too much. I grew up in poverty. I went to a school just like you describe. I was bullied and all that stuff and yet it didn’t “cause me to be a criminal”. I have had run in with the law though. I am a felon. But my crime wasn’t caused by society but an actual mental illness called bipolar disorder.
But at that time I wasn’t taking my meds correctly. Anyway, my point is, it’s not the threat of jail that’s kept me out for over 20 years but taking my meds correctly and meeting a woman who I can say literally saved my life. The “pain” didn’t “cure” me, but the kindness of a woman that showed me that people are actually good. A woman whose family shows me at every family function that good people exist, and I can promise you it isn’t “I might go to jail” that makes them that way.
Oh look, you’re proving my point for me.
Question 1, did you only have one bully?
Question 2, do you think all the people who bullied you care about morals?
Question 3, out of all the people who live in that reality, how many do you think meet a woman who literally saves their life?
Familiarize yourself with the concept of “statistically insignificant” lol. Stars will align for a good person to pop up every once in a while, having outliers is the nature of anything that is repeated over and over. But outliers can never be used as evidence to prove a point. You have yourself. I have half a middle school’s worth of students. Which one of us do you figure is more scientific and accurate?
No, it was a whole school.
Yes, because kids are kids and many of those “bullies” have later apologized to me and have grown up to be really decent people. Kids do stupid things.
The statistics are unimportant. What is important and the point of this argument is that there are good people in this world just like my wife and your ideas would hurt them as much as these “criminals” you’re so worried about.
Now really, what your idea really illustrates is more about you than society. If it’s “The threat of prison” that keeps you honest and good that’s a you problem not a society problem.
Edit:
To illustrate using myself as an example. It’s not jail that scares me most but losing my wife. If something happened to her, no threat of prison time would keep me from messing up the people that hurt her.
It’s the threat of losing something more important than freedom but the threat of losing hope.
Trust me, I know how lucky I am. She amazes me every day. She’s an example of something I want to live up to. She’s the one that makes me want to be good and decent and most of the time I think I don’t deserve her.
But the one thing that’s true is it’s her example and not a threat from some lopsided judicial system that keeps me honest.
Oh, would you look at that. “Many” grew up to be decent? You saying you kept track of half a school’s worth of people? I think what you mean to say is that, out of an entire school, a dozen or so people stopped being outwardly horrible in public. The rest might have gone on to steal, rob, murder, abuse, and God knows what else.
The statistics are all that matter, because we are talking about the world and our species. The debate is whether pain is necessary, and the statistics are scientific evidence in my favor. You can’t just Thanos the overall trend of our society out of existence, just because you met a good person lol. If we’re really going to go down that asinine route, I’ll just say “Brock Turner” again and stalemate with you. 1 to 1, one bad person to one good person, where my idea hurts one good person and gives one bad person what they deserve.
Finally, the only things that keeps me honest and good is duty. I have a duty to my parents to not be a disappointment, so I’ll stay in a crappy district and make it work. However, I’m actually educated, so I know that for every one person like me, there are like 2845734 other kids who don’t care about their family, and will do things like stealing money from their parents, or driving drunk and getting themselves killed on the morning of Mother’s Day, like this one kid from way back during my own high school days. Once again, you gotta look at the trends man. If you flip a coin 10 times and get 9 heads, that’s cool for you and all, but that doesn’t mean all the coins in the world are forged to land on head 90% of the time.