Forcing people to play your way

[Lumpus-1803]

@ShadowAegis-1537

Again tell me when Blizz or any other company faithfully implemented a player’s suggestion with 100% accuracy.

Again tell me that Blizzard needs ploot to increase drop rates.

We say ploot.
You argue against increased drop rates.

One does not equate to the other. They are two completely separate issues.

@ShadowAegis-1537

What you didn’t see anyone in this or any other thread like this one say, outside of me, if a boss drops 5 items then everyone else in the party will receive 5 items. This is the type of ploot they are most likely to implement. And the example is not mine but someone else’s.

Once again, they don’t need ploot to increase drop rates. Asking for ploot is not asking for drop rates. Your argument is what you think would “most likely” get implemented when no one here that I’ve seen is asking for that.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Doesn’t matter if you can choose to not use it. Its very existence is where the problem is.

It does matter. Some people cling to the phrase “preserve the essence of D2” as this will be the only option. They can preserve the essence for those that want it while giving other people the option.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Yes I know you want it where the loot only ever drops for you and only you. Where you and others are the masters and the rest of the party would have to beg the master to let them have the scraps from the table. Carry us to the phat loot.

This is a 100% incorrect assumption that makes you look like a petty child throwing a tantrum. We’ve had this talk before. You know this isn’t right yet you said it anyway. It just goes to show you nothing else and have relegated yourself to trolling.

@ShadowAegis-1537

Why not clear things up and say how you want others to play instead of letting everyone enjoy D2R the way it is now.

I’ve cleared it up before for you many times… but I will do it again because I’m nice.

I generally solo. I’m married and my play time can be erratic so rather than put people through “hold up, my wife is calling me” every 15 minutes, I solo.

When I do group up it’s either to get exp or to help others get exp. I rarely ever loot in these games and would most likely make all of my multiplayer games FFA to keep things moving quickly.

So no, I don’t want ploot for me. I will probably never used it.

@ShadowAegis-1537

I think I was a little tired at that point and made the mistake meant to say solo mf.

Wohoo! We agree!!!

@ShadowAegis-1537

I made a mistake you quoted earlier now you make a math mistake. 8 divided by 100 is .08. .08 times 100 is 8, meaning it is 8% not 12.5%.

Uhh… I don’t think that’s right either. 25% of 100 is 4. Double that (8) and you get 12.5%

@ShadowAegis-1537

Remember there is no one definition that everyone agrees to. So some might say that D2R fits that definition right now. The purist wouldn’t agree because there have been changes. And I think the definition that you are using are the purist definition.

While there may not be a definition, there are things that are common is all remasters… changes is one of those things. While I don’t usually like Wikipedia being used as a source, they do a good job of defining different types of software terms and is the only one that tackles remastering software specifically.

“Software remastering is [software development] that recreates [system software] and [applications] while incorporating [customizations], with the intent that it is copied and run elsewhere for “off-label” usage.”

It clearly states incorporating customizations.

@ShadowAegis-1537

It is still loot that drops for your character.

No, D3 drops loot only for your character, which is account bound, nd only tradeable to someone who helped in the fight for a short period of time. D3 loot is very different than ploot.

@ShadowAegis-1537

You really believe that they will give it to you the way you or the majority truly want it. I think all of you are daydreaming if you believe that.

I believe they don’t need one change to make another change happen. Ploot doesn’t mean anything other than ploot just because you’re afraid it might lead to something else.

[mouser-1307]

@Lumpus-1803

Once again, they don’t need ploot to increase drop rates. Asking for ploot is not asking for drop rates. Your argument is what you think would “most likely” get implemented when no one here that I’ve seen is asking for that.

@Ubiquitous-1242

four people do Diablo And Diablo drops a unique sword. That same sword drops for everyone

Ubiquitous has since edited his post, but that was his point. That’s what most players will be asking for - especially if they see items drop that they don’t have a chance to pick up because they were assigned to another player.

This is a legitimate argument no matter how much you want to dismiss it. We are against Ploot because it, in all likelyhood, WILL end up with an increase drop rate for everyone, making it the only sensible option to play with.

The way we make sure that the likely (or bad, if you prefer) option doesn’t get implemented is to keep saying NO to ploot.

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@Lumpus-1803

Again tell me that Blizzard needs ploot to increase drop rates.

We say ploot.
You argue against increased drop rates.

One does not equate to the other. They are two completely separate issues.

Silly me, you are right all game companies faithfully give us what we want exactly how we want it. Mind telling me how that works out with D3’s paragon system. I don’t remember anything like what we have right now. But yet it was implemented that way.

Nor did the runes come out the way we would want them in this game. Instead of them being drops that goes into sockets they are part of the skills.

@Lumpus-1803

Once again, they don’t need ploot to increase drop rates. Asking for ploot is not asking for drop rates. Your argument is what you think would “most likely” get implemented when no one here that I’ve seen is asking for that.

Look I am not saying what ones are asking for. I am saying that is the most likely outcome. Although you don’t even see it as a possibility.

@Lumpus-1803

While there may not be a definition, there are things that are common is all remasters… changes is one of those things. While I don’t usually like Wikipedia being used as a source, they do a good job of defining different types of software terms and is the only one that tackles remastering software specifically.

What I learned didn’t come from a wikipedia.

@Lumpus-1803

I believe they don’t need one change to make another change happen. Ploot doesn’t mean anything other than ploot just because you’re afraid it might lead to something else.

Look I know you want me to believe that if implemented it will be exactly as it was asked for working the way the majority wants it. I will leave now agree that we disagree and say okay you’re right it can’t happen. It will be exactly as the majority states it will be. it is now saying the majority have that much power. Although I will be keeping an eye on the issue if implemented.

[swagman-1243]

@mouser-1307

That’s what most players will be asking for - especially if they see items drop that they don’t have a chance to pick up because they were assigned to another player.

That’s why in a Timed Allocation scheme - the drop is awarded to a player for say 2 seconds. At that point in time, they are the only one who sees the drop, so they have the jump on it if they want it - at which point it never appears on the ground to other players.

If they don’t grab it in 2 seconds, it suddenly appears to everyone, and then it’s Saturday morning at the bakery… Er, I mean FFA…

If they don’t see it (because the earning player grabbed it), then the other players will never know it was ever there.

[Shadout-2849]

@ShadowAegis-1537

Silly me, you are right all game companies faithfully give us what we want exactly how we want it.

Too many of them do.

But D3:
People asked for RMAH and GAH to be removed. They were removed.
Some people ask for more and more power creep in D3; Blizzard keeps adding power creep…

D2:
Some people asked for respecs, Blizzard unfortunately added respecs.

D2R:
People asked for ladder exclusives in non-ladder. Blizzard delivered.
People asked for shared stash. Blizzard delivered.

WoW:
Blizzard has added all kinds of stuff directly based on player addon ideas.

[ShadowAegis-1537]

@Lumpus Below is the link you requested. It comes from the thread Why stop at 1.14d?

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/why-stop-at-114d/44161/144

[AnxiousDavid-1818]

@mouser-1307

Ubiquitous has since edited his post, but that was his point. That’s what most players will be asking for - especially if they see items drop that they don’t have a chance to pick up because they were assigned to another player.

lol 1 person asked for it while most of the people wanting ploot have been openly against it… how is that most asking for it?

i guess on that logic most anti ploot people want increased drops too at least with runes because

Runes are still too rare

This is precisely the kind of change that should come in 1.15, after the game launches and developers have time to make some -minor- balance changes before any big patch: Runes are still too rare Compared to top end elite uniques, sets, charms, jewels, etc- runes are vastly more difficult to find, by orders of magnitude, and yet have vastly higher demand at the same time. A top end unique item that might only be useable by 1 out of every 10 characters might be 100x as common as a high rune tha…

was a thread started by an anti-ploot person.

[blash-1917]

@ShadowAegis-1537

There are 8 players max in a party. I divided by 8 equals .125, multiply that number by 100 you get 12.5 that is the percentage of 1 with the maximum number of 8. With 100 being the maximum number 8 is 8%. Eight out of a hundred is 8% not 12.5%.

What on earth are you talking about?

8 is the number of players.

.125 is the chance of a player to allocate a drop (in a 8p game)

100 is a factor for people uncomfortable with percentages.

12,5 is the percentage chance of a player to allocate a drop (in a 8p game)

What is the second 8? What is the second 8? Why do you divide 8 by 100? And why is the resulting 8% of any relevance?

Since Lumpus is talking about /roll 100, i will take a wild guess that the second 100 is the roll max value and the 8 is the number of players (again). You divide 8 by 100, which is a nice number, but you might want to consider that if you roll for 100 numbers and 8 players get their even share of those numbers, you actually have to divide 100 by 8.
And you might have a hunch already what the result of that could be (hint: it’s part of your original calculation)

[SirSmokeAlot-1381]

It’s because, it’s people like you who usually jump ship first and leave/abandon the game. And the rest of us are stuck with your BS.

[RocknRolla-11718]

@SirSmokeAlot-1381

It’s because, it’s people like you who usually jump ship first and leave/abandon the game. And the rest of us are stuck with your BS.

Only if you want to be the victim and be stuck with his “BS” because they are only options, so you chose to use them lol.

[TheImp-1688]

@Lumpus-1803

Again tell me that Blizzard needs ploot to increase drop rates.

We say ploot.
You argue against increased drop rates.

One does not equate to the other. They are two completely separate issues.

@ShadowAegis-1537

What you didn’t see anyone in this or any other thread like this one say, outside of me, if a boss drops 5 items then everyone else in the party will receive 5 items. This is the type of ploot they are most likely to implement. And the example is not mine but someone else’s.

Once again, they don’t need ploot to increase drop rates. Asking for ploot is not asking for drop rates. Your argument is what you think would “most likely” get implemented when no one here that I’ve seen is asking for that.

Yes, one does not equate another but this is part of the slippery slope we’re all a bit cautious of and you’re completely omitting these changes in the big picture. You’re not asking for it now, nor probably want this done in the future but this is what it will evolve to. The ~5 drops per boss is the perfect example in an 8 player game; People will naturally complain they should get something for participating and with enough pressure will bend to it since the mode will feel broken otherwise. This already happened in other games.

[RocknRolla-11718]

@TheImp-1688

Yes, one does not equate another but this is part of the slippery slope we’re all a bit cautious of and you’re completely omitting these changes in the big picture.

Path of Exile already figured it out.

[AnxiousDavid-1818]

@TheImp-1688

Yes, one does not equate another but this is part of the slippery slope we’re all a bit cautious of and you’re completely omitting these changes in the big picture.

the same could be said for removing bots and dupes, people will see fewer fully geared characters and will have a harder (relative to how hard it is with op gear but still not really hard) time killing things and farming gear/xp.

Items will be rarer and it will take longer for the average player to gear up and this will lead to some asking for increased drop rates.

It’s a “slippery slope” to remove these hacks from the game but does that mean blizzard should not do it?

[TheImp-1688]

I’m not that familiar with PoE so will take your word for it. Plus i only ever see people playing alone in that game but that could just be my ignorance of how the game works.

[TheImp-1688]

@AnxiousDavid-1818

the same could be said for removing bots and dupes, people will see fewer fully geared characters and will have a harder (relative to how hard it is with op gear but still not really hard) time killing things and farming gear/xp.

Items will be rarer and it will take longer for the average player to gear up and this will lead to some asking for increased drop rates.

It’s a “slippery slope” to remove these hacks from the game but does that mean blizzard should not do it?

Yes I made that same point in topics around length of seasons if they were too short and this is a valid point here also. The problem here is both together it just doubled the amount of reasons to increase drop rates.

[AnxiousDavid-1818]

@TheImp-1688

Yes I made that same point in topics around length of seasons if they were too short and this is a valid point here also. The problem here is both together it just doubled the amount of reasons to increase drop rates

the whole point is no matter what happens there will always be people who ask for increased drops adding or removing features based on the feeling that more people will or wont ask for is not a good reason.

[Axe-12152]

@AnxiousDavid-1818

It’s a “slippery slope” to remove these hacks from the game but does that mean blizzard should not do it?

As if removing hacks and bots is equivalent to adding an entirely new looting mechanic! Excellent point!

[RocknRolla-11718]

@Axe-12152

As if removing hacks and bots is equivalent to adding an entirely new looting mechanic! Excellent point!

Giving the host the ability to kick cheaters like bots/pickit players from their game is another solution to combat the problem.

[TheImp-1688]

@AnxiousDavid-1818

he whole point is no matter what happens there will always be people who ask for increased drops adding or removing features based on the feeling that more people will or wont ask for is not a good reason.

I can agree on people always asking for it regardless. I wholeheartedly believe the loot system is fine the way it is and doesn’t need to change. You have options depending on what you want just the perfect option isn’t available in everyone’s view. I understand people having the options but i’d prefer they devote development effort for other features/changes.

[Axe-12152]

@RocknRolla-11718

Giving the host the ability to kick cheaters like bots/pickit players from their game is another solution to combat the problem.

No thanks, let’s not open that can of kicking worms