Forcing people to play your way

[Playaah-1524]

@swagman-1243

Baal runs might be a LOT harder to find, no?

I personally believe that there will be alot more baal runs now since there will be more people playing. At a certain point, most people will be looking to do baal runs, so there will always be games. But it will be harder, no doubt.

The first week or so into the ladder pre-D2R, people farm baal without bots aswell. Takes abit of time for the bots to get their gear in order. But after that point, most runs are run by bots. Hope to god that won’t happen in D2R.

You could easily make a baalrun game yourself and people will quickly join, but people are lazy, so if there isn’t any sorc to consistently teleport to the throne room, people will leave. Easyest way to do hell baalruns is to roll a sorc yourself, learn the map tiles, and teleport to the throneroom, hoping you don’t teleport straight into a pack of dolls or get instasapped by souls.

[Shadout-2849]

@Playaah-1524

i still disagree with Ploot though

That is completely fine.
Honestly, I have a lot more respect for the people who say “Ploot should not happen because I dislike it!” than I have for some of the people on the forum that comes up with all kinds of silly lies to justify their opinion (like, “ploot leads to increased droprates” etc.).
Not wanting something, simply because you dont like it, is fine.

@Playaah-1524

because the player doing the killing is the player closest to the killing

That surely doesnt have to be the case, such as for any ranged characters doing the killing.

@Playaah-1524

If the “leecher” is closer to the mobs in question , i wouldn’t categorize him as a leecher, since he is participating in battle.

Or just standing there, waiting to click items.

@Playaah-1524

People are already lazy in baal runs, where they stand in a safe zone out of harms way,

If you are more than a screen away from enemies (unable to see them), you should not be in the item roll imo.

@Madpada-1728

It is very widely understood in my industry that developers have a unique skillset. And that is coding. Moving and manipulating data. It is very very rare to find a developer that can design. And if you find one, likely their strength in coding suffers because they’ve focussed less on coding.

I think this is a semantic misunderstanding between people.

When I, and, I am pretty sure, others, say Developers, they mean the whole team/company behind a game. Which includes designers just as much as programmers.

Also, I am no native english speaker, nor have your industry knowledge but afaik, developer refers to the whole package; both designers, programmers, artists etc. would be considered developers.
Whereas you specifically seem to be talking about programmers.

@Dimarcus-21615

I mean seriously… summarize it and you get 5-7 people forcing everyone else for ploot here.

Same goes the other way around

@Playaah-1524

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, eventhough i agree there has been enough threads on this subject.

Completely agreed. Though, and I have not counted them, it also seems most threads are made by people who are speaking against Ploot. And most hilarious, made by people who, in their very own OPs, in their very own new threads, argue against all the thread spam

[Playaah-1524]

@Shadout-2849

That surely doesnt have to be the case, such as for any ranged characters doing the killing.

As a sorc main, i have never had an issue picking up loot. When you fight an enemy you know when they die, because that is where your focus is. You will be ready for that loot. Of course if you stay at max range, you will be less likely if someone is infront of you, but in public games you rarely do.

@Shadout-2849

Or just standing there, waiting to click items.

Which makes them vulnerable to dying, loosing experience and chance for loot. People usually don’t leech unless they are undergeared or under leveled, which is why they easily die if they get up front.

@Shadout-2849

If you are more than a screen away from enemies (unable to see them), you should not be in the item roll imo.

Still makes it very viable to leech in the throne room. You don’t have to be offscreen to leech there aslong as the party members are strong enough to deal with the monsters.

Which they usually are with precast blizzards, blessed hammers and other spells, which makes mobs die very quickly.

[Shadout-2849]

@Playaah-1524

As a sorc main, i have never had an issue picking up loot. When you fight an enemy you know when they die, because that is where your focus is. You will be ready for that loot. Of course if you stay at max range, you will be less likely if someone is infront of you, but in public games you rarely do.

You rarely do because of the FFA loot rules. That still doesn’t mean that someone at max range cant be the one doing all the dmg.
In ploot you would not need to play Hug and Click, and a sorc could stay at range, and still be the one doing all the dmg.

@Playaah-1524

Which makes them vulnerable to dying, loosing experience and chance for loot.

It is pretty easy to survive in D2 though. Even when undergeard, since if you are leeching you only need to focus on survival stats.

@Playaah-1524

Still makes it very viable to leech in the throne room. You don’t have to be offscreen to leech there aslong as the party members are strong enough to deal with the monsters.

Sure. Also viable in FFA. Just saying you cant stay so far away that no enemies could ever hope to hit you.
And those precast Blizzards etc. could very well be from a sorc at range, with a tanky leecher rushing in to loot, while not helping.

[Quabbe-2336]

I don’t know why the term ‘leecher’ comes up here so often. In my 20 years in bnet I never had an issue with leechers. People would stand around in cows, blood runs and later in baal runs all the time, while the wf ama (1.09) or the hammerdin / lightning sisters clears the area. Everyone is cool with that. And people usually don’t follow you mindless around, while you are slowly progressing through the game in public games. They use their skills, curses, warcries, whatever they have to offer, even if they don’t have the ability to deal (a lot of) direct damage.

[Playaah-1524]

@Quabbe-2336

I don’t know why the term ‘leecher’ comes up here so often. In my 20 years in bnet I never had an issue with leechers. People would stand around in cows, blood runs and later in baal runs all the time, while the wf ama (1.09) or the hammerdin / lightning sisters clears the area. Everyone is cool with that

That is the leeching in question. People standing around while others clear the content. Those people would with an allocation system be entitled to equal share of the dropped loot, which by my opinion isn’t fair to the hammerdin/lightning sisters you speak of, who does all the work.

Before people leeched mainly for experience and picking up scraps, they didn’t have a real chance at grabbing the freshly dropped goodies. With allocation, they will.

The real reason it was accepted, is because having more players in the game increased the overall loot drops, and experience gained by the boosters. Not sure if the boosters would appreciate giving away 7/8 of the loot to the leechers.

@Shadout-2849

You rarely do because of the FFA loot rules. That still doesn’t mean that someone at max range cant be the one doing all the dmg.
In ploot you would not need to play Hug and Click, and a sorc could stay at range, and still be the one doing all the dmg.

True, it is partly because of FFA loot rules, but it isn’t very fun standing on max range, not seeing anything eighter. Even with the timed allocation you guys speak of, you would need to stay within max range, or else you could miss the loot before the timer runs out. In reality, noone really stands in max range except for precasting.

@Shadout-2849

It is pretty easy to survive in D2 though. Even when undergeard, since if you are leeching you only need to focus on survival stats.

Never seen a leecher walking around with tanky gear without damage just to stand in the fight and snatch stuff. That’s news to me. Might be of a problem now though, since you have 4x the stash space and have an easier time carrying an extra set of gear.

@Shadout-2849

Sure. Also viable in FFA. Just saying you cant stay so far away that no enemies could ever hope to hit you.
And those precast Blizzards etc. could very well be from a sorc at range, with a tanky leecher rushing in to loot, while not helping.

A tanky leecher standing in the fight, tanking damage is actually participating though. Keeping the mobs gathered and away from the sorceress in your example.

@Lumpus-1803

it’s FFA looters since ploot requires proximity and damaging the mob.

If damaging the mob is a requirement then leeching wouldn’t be a problem in general.

[Lumpus-1803]

@Quabbe-2336

I don’t know why the term ‘leecher’ comes up here so often.

Because this was the term initially used by the FFA loot people to describe plooters as a way to put them down. It was noted that if anyone has the potential to leech, it’s FFA looters since ploot requires proximity and damaging the mob.

[Shadout-2849]

@Playaah-1524

which by my opinion isn’t fair to the hammerdin/lightning sisters you speak of, who does all the work.

@Playaah-1524

Not sure if the boosters would appreciate giving away 7/8 of the loot to the leechers.

Those players can just play FFA and get all the loot.
With nobody willing to carry leechers in Ploot, they wont get very far.
It seems very self-correcting.

@Playaah-1524

A tanky leecher standing in the fight, tanking damage is actually participating though. Keeping the mobs gathered and away from the sorceress in your example.

You only need to stand there the second before they die. Which of course in the throne room example will be really fast regardless.

[Playaah-1524]

@Shadout-2849

Those players can just play FFA and get all the loot.
With nobody willing to carry leechers in Ploot, they wont get very far.
It seems very self-correcting.

Willing? It’s not about being willing. Leechers can join your game whether you like it or not, unless you password protect your game, but then you need 7 friends or trusted people to join your game, if you want the benifits of 8players experience and drops.

I don’t think your gonna leave every single game a leecher joins your baalrun to get some easy experience and gear, because if it will be anything like what Diablo 2 has been over the 20 years it existed, it will be alot of games.

[Shadout-2849]

@Playaah-1524

Leechers can join your game whether you like it or no

Initially I’d just stand there and wait to see them react Otherwise leave and make a new game. You will see fairly early if they are leechers or not.
Or, go farm something else than what the run was meant for, while they are in the game, rewarding me with more drops.

Of course, last option (or first); turn hostile and kill them.

[Playaah-1524]

@Shadout-2849

Initially I’d just stand there and wait to see them react Otherwise leave and make a new game. You will see fairly early if they are leechers or not.
Or, go farm something else than what the run was meant for, while they are in the game, rewarding me with more drops.

Of course, last option (for first); turn hostile and kill them.

Wouldn’t that be annoying to deal with all the time?

[Shadout-2849]

@Playaah-1524

Wouldn’t that be annoying to deal with all the time?

Pretty sure I could find a fair amount of enjoyment in ruining leechers day.

And those options still seem worth more than giving them 7/8 of the loot. I cant see why a good carrier would ever agree to that.

[Playaah-1524]

@Shadout-2849

Pretty sure I could find a fair amount of enjoyment in ruining leechers day.

And those options still seem worth more than giving them 7/8 of the loot.

Atleast before it was really hard to find a proper baal run game. If you created one 4-7 of the joining players would be leechers. Relaxing by the portal in the throne room while watching netflix, peeping on the other screen waiting for the run to end, then rejoining the next, easily leveling up their character.

A leecher free chaos or baal game was pretty much nonexistent.

[Shadout-2849]

@Playaah-1524

A leecher free chaos or baal game was pretty much nonexistent.

Sure but as you said, people are also fine with leechers in FFA, as long as they only leech XP. As it benefits the carrier to have them there.
That would not be the case in Ploot. People in that would presumably be a lot less accepting of leechers.

[Playaah-1524]

@Shadout-2849

Sure but as you said, people are also fine with leechers in FFA, as long as they only leech XP. As it benefits the carrier to have them there.
That would not be the case in Ploot. People in that would presumably be a lot less accepting of leechers.

Yep. It is also true that people can play FFA instead, but it doesn’t really feel right that people have to avoid Ploot games such as baalruns because of a leeching problem.

It might not be as bad as i predict though, who knows. I just know how bad it was in D2 lod.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El4k8_1EIiQ

[Shadout-2849]

Maybe it will. Imo this is also why we should simply give it a try.
A 3-6 month test ladder (alongside normal ladder) where we could see how it played out.
If the test ladder crashed and burned, it could just not be implemented into the rest of the game afterward

[swagman-1243]

@Playaah-1524

Lord of Terror | DiabLoL 2 Ep25 - YouTube

That’s f’in hysterical! t4t!

[Playaah-1524]

@swagman-1243

That’s f’in hysterical!

Watch this one also, the ending cracked me up big time

[Lumpus-1803]

Probably the funniest thing I’ve seen in a while.

Ok, those are both f’n hysterical.

[Playaah-1524]

Diablol 2 Ep 15 "Duriel the Pain Train"

This one might be the best i’ve seen thus faar