Fine, you can have Personal Loot

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
394

Uh. Just about every one of your posts in this thread expresses your unhappiness with personal loot.

Neither are you. Basically all you do is call everyone who responds to you a troll. Over and over again. And then when I do ask you a legitimate question, your response is to reply with another insult -

and then act as if I asked something else entirely, even though my question was quite clear.

Then what is it, and why bother typing it?

Well, no, he’s not. 1/8 odds with no outside influence is fairer than FFA. Granted, it’s not the fairest method possible, but I doubt we’d ever have a chance of implementing that even if we could agree on what it was.

Is it arbitrary? Kind of, yeah. But “who clicks fastest” is also arbitrary.

By the way, didn’t you say something about me being condescending earlier in the thread? What do you think calling another poster “kid” is?

You keep saying that, but then you back away from saying why, and you deny the reasons others come up with. So if you can explain why it’s garbage - and actually stick with that reason or reasons - then maybe there could be a conversation without you screaming about trolls supposedly misinterpreting everything you say.

No, but you can blame FFA loot for being highly exploitable.

It prevents them from cheating at loot.

Again, though, you haven’t said WHY it’s a worse looting system, except to whine about trolls lying and misinterpreting everything you’ve said.

“Is this what you meant?” “No, you lying troll.” “How about this?” “No, you lying troll.”
“Okay, this?” “No, you lying troll.” “Can you tell me what you meant?” “No, you lying troll.”

You can see how that conversation might be confusing, right?

It’s a video game, dude, real life logic doesn’t always apply. Like you saying earlier in the thread “well, you could just PK everyone in the game.”

He is, but so are you, and that’s never stopped you from doing that. Heck, that’s exactly what you just did when I asked why you were unhappy with personal loot drop rates.

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395

I disagree. Further more in my opinion an improved loot system in fact promotes more random parties in public games. When you watch a promo video for any arpg what do they always show you? A full party with one of every available character type running along together displaying their individual skills…

Barb go Rawr jumps into a group of mobs and hits something on the head sorc fire’s a fireball and blow something up ama arrows three guys hiding by a rock and assassin backstabs a guy trying to sneak up on the sorc etc.

Why do you think that they show you this? It’s because group play is what its all about really. There is no contest between single player and multiplayer co-op. Sure we can all play solo but more full parties… got to be good right? Opens up the co-op with random people without the worry of trying to snag your loot all the time.

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396

Reading comprehension - get some. The query was why I am unhappy with drop rates. I’m not.

No, I call people like you who are lying, misquoting, flaming, and being completely dishonest trolls. See how that works?

You love to be wrong.

You can dish it out but you can’t take it, eh?

I’ve already said why multiple times, sorry that you lack the ability to read and are merely interested in repeatedly flaming me. Got it out of your system yet? No? Didn’t think so.

Nah that’s the trick you and your troll buddies use. I’ve done it one time to show you that it’s merely annoying and doesn’t serve your arguments at all. Of course, you missed it and are talking about a completely different statement which you’ve again failed to understand and quoted out of context.

As much as I enjoy how all you do is flame me and add nothing to the conversation, I’m going to ask for probably tenth time that you stop. Defending myself point by point from your out of context quotes and outright lies about me is cluttering the thread with off topic nonsense.

397

Almost every thread where people disagree about something strongly has had a bit of that in it. On both sides. Everyone should just relax man its the weekend :smiley:

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398

Yes, but games in practice rarely look like the box art. Full parties and team play happen all the time with FFA loot, changing to an inferior looting system is a side argument. 7/8 of p8 loot hidden is worse than soloing p1 loot for farming. Learn to share or accept competition.

399

I would suggest if you think that certain posters are trolls that you do not respond to them. There is the saying: “Don’t feed the trolls”

If you see that a troll responds to you and you feel compelled to reply, I would simply suggest that you put them on ignore. Out of sight, out of mind.

If you say that you will not respond to someone, then don’t.

Since this is Blizzard’s forum, forum members are allowed to reply to whoever they choose as long as they meet Blizzard’s rules to post (in this case own a game license) and maintain being on the right side of Blizzard’s code of conduct.

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400

Yeah I’ve heard this kind of advice before. Like in elementary/jr/high school you were told that if a bully physically attacked you, you should curl up into a ball and just take it. Sorry but I’m not just some worm for you to kick around for your amusement. If you are attacking me, I’m going to fight back. If you are outright lying about my arguments and incessantly flaming me and I’m bored enough I’ll give you a response.

Sure, I’ve been reprimanded by clueless authority plenty of times for this way of doing things. It’s still better than submitting to cowards and bullies.

I said I wasn’t interested in responding to them. Constant lies and flames convinced me otherwise. Maybe you think that means the ‘troll’ won. I’d rather defend myself than have the lies immortalized on the forum with no response.

401

For me, there is a difference between attacking someone personally and critiquing logically someone’s arguments. My responses to you have been the latter.

Although it is clear that you would strongly prefer not to have a personal loot option in D2R, you acknowledge that D2R with a personal loot option is far superior to the current D2 battlenet.

It seems that to you, a personal loot iD2R is the better of two poor choices in comparison to the current battlenet D2.

For me, D2R with a personal loot option is superior to D2R without that option.

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402

And the trolls in question have been lying about my arguments, which is not the same thing as logically critiquing them. Telling outright lies that I have said things which I never said, repeatedly. Quoting subsets of text, out of context, and then lying about the context. It doesn’t surprise me that you ignore this completely, and make an asinine statement about logical critique.

403

Then quote yourself showing the entirety of the text. That is what I do when another forum poster does that to me. Then I highlight what the quote meant in full.

Have I ever knowingly lied about one of your arguments? The answer is no.

I try to quote you to show what you explicitly stated and my response to it. There can be misinterpretations due to lack of reading comprehension or lack of clarity in what was initially written.

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404

Yeah, maybe I’ll do that the first time. However, it quickly becomes obvious that these posters are intentionally lying and there is no misunderstanding. In your opinion should one keep humoring them, even when they are quoting small subsets of text from other threads, on other topics, made several days ago?

Right now you are intentionally pretending to misunderstand who and what I am talking about, is that because you want me to do the leg work to go back and quote all the times the trolls in question have told their lies and insults about me, effectively repeating them? All so you can continue to ignore the issue at hand and offer bad faith advice as if you’re talking to a child?

405

Since you asked, my personal opinion is that if you really feel someone or a few people are internet trolls, then do not reply to them or put them on ignore. I will admit that I have intellectual vanity and like to “win” debates. At some point, I remember two sayings:

  1. Never argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
  2. Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

Flag them if they violate the forum code of conduct (e.g. if they name and shame). The forum moderators (especially if a post is flagged by many due to its contents) will review the flagged post. This Blizzard employee will make the ultimate determination about if the post is ok or warrants moderation including handing out a forum suspension.

By replying, you just keep the thread at the top of the forum. Maybe some will see your posts and agree that you are right. Maybe some will see your post and see that you are wrong.

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406

So just eat their insults and let their lies about you stand, got it.

407

Multiplayers are questionable strangers temporarily fighting together against a greater threat and for treasure - we can turn on each other at practically any time. If Legolas had stepped in to such a group temporarily, I think itd be totally in character for him to keep a magical item he found. Multiplayers are not great friends.

Until they do become friends, though. Which is one of the beautiful things about this FFA loot system. Then they work cooperatively and share, like The Fellowship would. Relating a group of stranger adventurers in multiplayer with The Epic Fellowship doesnt work. In any case, FFA is far more realistic than the no-choice allocation of p-loot. And you know, sharing is still very possible - it just requires some minimal -bum bum bum- relationship building.

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408

Exactly, this is why I prefer optional personal loot. If you want to play in public games with ninja looters and other miscreants who do not share loot equitably and can turn on each other at any time than you still would have that option.

I and others want the option to play public D2R multiplayer where personal loot, eliminating the effects of this misbehavior and leading to a more enjoyable experience.

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409

GOOGLE
Ninja looter

A loot ninja, AKA ninja looter or simply ninja, is a player who takes loot to which he or she is not entitled. The act is referred to as ninja looting or ninjaing. The term predates World of Warcraft and originated with the notion of looting as quickly as possible.

The loot does not belong to you until you’ve picked it up. You are not entitled to it. Therefore ninja looters do not exist in the context of Diablo II, so you should stop misusing this term.

As Axe said, and which you responded to with “Exactly” :

Therefore picking up loot can not be categorized as “misbehavior”. Random strangers who did not enter into an agreement to share loot are not expected to split loot equitably.

Every ploot argument fails to split loot in an equitable way, it merely pretends to. Some proponents of these ploot systems also love to complain about the drop rate of a Zod rune. How then is it equitable to deny 7/8 of the party even the chance of picking up the Zod rune in the highly unlikely circumstance in which one drops? Will your system then issue 0 drops to the lucky player who was forcibly distributed the zod rune until the time when enough runes have dropped that it would reasonably be estimated another zod rune might drop? No thanks.

How are you equitably dividing the boss drops when bosses can only drop at most 6 items? (int)(6/8)=0. At least 2 players get 0 items, not very equitable! Is your system then expected to track these parties between games? What happens when the party composition changes, then? Or is that system trying to imply that a fallen drop is equivalent to a Baal drop? We’re supposed to believe that Baal dropped 6 identical items?

Ploot arguments are not about being fair, equitable, or logical. They are about revenge on those who picked up an item you wanted faster than you. They are about being angry enough that they wished the item had never dropped to begin with. They are about being so bitter about this occurrence that you are willing to force a system that removes 7/8 of your potential loot from yourself and others just so you never have to feel that jealousy again.

That’s why I think ploot is an absolute :clown_face: system and must be avoided at all costs. Where is the incentive to play as a party when you get more drops from P1 solo play, and the majority of time you wind up hard carrying the party anyways? P8 loot is a big draw to group play for many players, even though proponents of ploot would attempt to demonize you for this, call you greedy, etc. Remove 7/8 of that, and the incentive is gone, you’re worse off than playing alone. I also commonly hard carry parties for fun, rush strangers for free, give away unused decent gear for free to new players, but ask a ploot proponent and I’m the embodiment of greed, as evil as Diablo himself.

410

Ninja looting does exist in D2. Even the D2R lead producer stated it.
‘Diablo II: Resurrected’ aspires to iterate on perfection - The Washington Post
The diablo wiki even has a section on ninja looting
Ninja - Diablo Wiki
Here is another source where they mention that diablo 2 has ninja looting
Ninja Looting - TV Tropes
Wikipedia also has a section discussing ninja looting more broadly in video games
Loot (video games) - Wikipedia

If you were to ask 1,000 experienced D2 players if ninja looting existed in D2 multiplayer, I bet 999 would be correct and say that ninja looting was in D2.

As for the rest of your argument, total drops are the same between FFA and personal loot multiplayer game. Therefore, if a Zod rune drops only one player gets it in an 8 player game. 7 get nothing. The results are identical in FFA and personal loot that 1 person will have the Zod rune while 7 get NOTHING.

In terms of your concerns about carrying others in personal loot games and feeling like you were robbed of the opportunity to get loot, this is completely irrelevant. We are advocating for optional personal loot at either game or character creation. Given your distaste for instanced loot, you would only play in FFA games. Therefore, you are saying that there would be a potential problem for you if you made a choice that you will never make in the first place.

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411

Where do your “not great friends” suddenly become friends in your ffa world? In my experience, they just join the next game and continue taking all they can get again.

The pLoot system tries to ensure that nobody is left behind because they simply cannot click fast enough for whatever reason (lag, positioning, disability, playstyle, etc.)

Which almost nobody cares to do, because they do not have to. Afterall, they have the items already in their hands.
So either they dont want them, then they probably would not have picked them up.
Or the other person needs to actively ask them (people usually do not offer items they just picked up).

What most people do is: pick all they can, rejoin for next game.
After a while, they will clean their stash either in a trade game or just throw items away.
So even though others participated in the game, they even have to invest to get the item they could have picked up without trading for it.
You are increasing the trade-capacity of players who click fast, which creates a reduced group of wealthy players (which some like to belong to) and another group of players who need to ask those wealthy players to get the items they actually already found (= were in the game when they dropped) by themselves.

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412

Because you actually talk with some people and group up again in the future on purpose… like making friends in real life. Or join a clan. Surprise, this is possible!

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413

Which all does not happen in the usualy Baal / CS run.
You will most likely group up with other fast-clickers or other slow-clickers.
Fast-clickers will not invite “noobs” into their precious clans.
Just like making friends in real life.

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