Fine, you can have Personal Loot

[Rieven-2285]

A better looting system is part of controlling cheaters. No mercy for cheaters.

[Turlok-1680]

@Rieven-2285

A better looting system is part of controlling cheaters. No mercy for cheaters.

Alright it’s just parroting the same line for you then. We’re at an impasse. A worse looting system is not necessary to control cheaters. No mercy for cheaters.

[Rieven-2285]

Keeping it simple. So you can understand. Getting the messege yet

[Turlok-1680]

@Rieven-2285

Keeping it simple. So you can understand. Getting the messege yet

Yup, you’re wrong but you’re simple. Sorry, cheaters are not an excuse to implement loot, getting the message yet

[Rieven-2285]

A better looting system is part of controlling cheaters. lol

[Turlok-1680]

nice spam you have going there

[Rieven-2285]

Its not worth trying to expand on it in anyway. Its really very simple.

@Rieven-2285

A better looting system is part of controlling cheaters.

[Bodach-1471]

@Rieven-2285

A better looting system is part of controlling cheaters. No mercy for cheaters.

This right here
Let’s do it

[Axe-12152]

@MicroRNA-1507

Alternatively, one could consider FFA loot against role-playing and immersion. In an epic battle of good versus evil, the good loot is allocated to the ones that it makes most sense. Does Gandalf click first to get that cool bow before Legolas? Does Legolas click first to get that cool wand before Gandalf? First click, first served breaks the whole good versus evil but leads to infighting, cheating, and hostility. There is a reason that instanced loot is now the gold standard.

Dude - this analogy has been responded to before. Players in D2 are not in a fellowship like Legolas and Gimli. Unless they are actually in a fellowship (a guild, clan, or friend group), iwc they do share the loot equitably.

[Bugles-2611]

news flash. P-loot will not be in D2R. wait for you belowed mods-- you will get all you want to make the game easy. hf and stay safe.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Axe-12152

this analogy has been responded to before. Players in D2 are not in a fellowship like Legolas and Gimli. Unless they are actually in a fellowship (a guild, clan, or friend group), iwc they do share the loot equitably.

Unless it is a PvP game, in multiplayer PvE, a party that groups up to fight hordes of monsters and ultimately devils in an epic fight of good versus evil are not infighting where it is first come first served to get loot.

@Bugles-2611

news flash. P-loot will not be in D2R

You may be right. However, Blizzard in the first D2R survey explicitly asked in players wanted personal loot instead of FFA loot at D2R launch. Given this fact, it seems like at least Blizzard has considered instanced/personal loot. The extent is unknown.

@Bodach-1471

@Rieven-2285

A better looting system is part of controlling cheaters. No mercy for cheaters.

This right here
Let’s do it

Correct. As noted correctly by Turlok, cheating exists in aRPGs even if there is personal loot or account bound loot. Moreover, it is not possible to ban all the cheaters. In D2R, with free trade and FFA, cheating is incentivized greatly.

In a personal loot system, the impact of cheaters on legitimate players is minimized in that they are not getting more than their expected loot with binomial variance at he expense of the other players who are getting less.

@Turlok-1680

Because loot is inferior. Don’t let cheaters further ruin the game by being your poor excuse to push an inferior loot system which does not belong in D2.

That is your personal opinion. As this thread illustrate many feel the opposite that personal loot is a superior system. As repeatedly said, a personal loot option is being advocated at game or character creation. Therefore, you can still play with like-minded players in FFA game while other play in personal loot games.

No harm no foul. Win-win.

@Turlok-1680

You’re right, no real argument exists which will convince me that loot is a better option.

I know your rationale to support your arguments have demonstrated this to me.

@Turlok-1680

You can not blame botting and hacks on FFA loot. “But people are cheating” is not an argument against FFA loot. Pickit is a stretch. People are toxic regardless. People cheat and bot on games with instanced loot that you can’t trade. Give up the cheater argument. Ban cheaters.

Is FFA the only thing to blame for botting and hacks and player toxicity. in D2? Of course not. Does it contribute to each of these issue, of course they do.

@Rieven-2285

It makes it less profitable to run a bot. It makes it harder for the people who run bots to collect 8 player loot. It stops grabbit and kills it stone dead. A better looting system is part of controlling cheaters.

This is 100% true.

Also, there is the issue of differential ping/lag that has largely been ignored in this discussion. Although some claim that they want equal access to all drops so that they can have an opportunity to collect all good loot, this does not exist. If my ping is high, the good loot is often collected before it appears on my screen.

@Turlok-1680

Wrong, a different looting system does absolutely nothing to ‘control cheaters’.

It does control cheaters in the sense that they can not take a disproportionate amount of good items, leaving legitimate players with less. Therefore, the claim that it does “absolutely nothing to ‘control cheaters’” is invalid.

If a pickit user is in a personal loot game, can they get loot that drops for me? This is rhetorical question since the answer is no.

If a pickit user is in a FFA loot game, can they get all (or most) of the good drops? This is rhetorical question since the answer is yes.

Think of it this way. If a thief is sequestered in their own house, they can not break into my house and steal my household items. This controls the harm that the thief can do to me.

On a lighter note, this thread could become a drinking game where every time someone uses a clown face, it is take a drink.

[Rieven-2285]

@MicroRNA-1507

On a lighter note, this thread could become a drinking game where every time someone uses a clown face, it is take a drink

I’ll drink to that

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Rieven-2285

I’ll drink to that

[Turlok-1680]

@MicroRNA-1507

It does control cheaters in the sense that they can not take a disproportionate amount of good items, leaving legitimate players with less.

Yes, in the same way murdering someone stops them from arguing with you. loot prevents a tiny subsection of cheats from harming you, at the cost of murdering d2. Or, you could just ban the cheaters and not murder D2.

Drink.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Turlok-1680

Yes, in the same way murdering someone stops them from arguing with you. loot prevents a tiny subsection of cheats from harming you, at the cost of murdering d2. Or, you could just ban the cheaters and not murder D2.

No change in D2R murders D2. Blizzard has stated that D2 will continue to exist as is.

D2R =/= D2

FFA loot interferes with the ability of players to get a proportionate share of the loot based on factors beyond their control (even if all cheats are eliminated which will not occur).

[Turlok-1680]

@MicroRNA-1507

No change in D2R murders D2. Blizzard has stated that D2 will continue to exist as is.

You’re smart enough to know that isn’t what I was saying. What is it you call little jabs like this, “micro aggressions” or something? But since you bring it up, D2R itself murders D2 unless something goes terribly wrong. Classic bnet is simply too much of an unmaintained cesspool to expect a different outcome.

[MicroRNA-1507]

Hypothetically speaking:

If D2R had optional personal loot, would this D2R version murder D2?

[Turlok-1680]

@MicroRNA-1507

Hypothetically speaking:

If D2R had optional personal loot, would this D2R version murder D2?

That would depend on so many other factors. Suffice to say personal loot would be a huge subtraction from the quality of the game.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Turlok-1680

That would depend on so many other factors.

I am only saying that the addition of optional personal loot at either game or character creation (Blizzard would pick the option they wanted) with no other changes except what has been announced.

In this scenario, would D2R with optional personal loot murder D2?

[Turlok-1680]

@MicroRNA-1507

I am only saying that the addition of optional personal loot with no other changes except what has been announced.

In this scenario, would D2R with optional personal loot murder D2?

Yes, sadly the state of bottlenet realms, lack of moderation, terrible connectivity, random r/d and restrictions, etc… even with a horrible decision like a ploot option D2R will murder D2. Here’s the part where you troll me and claim success, go for it. You guys are so dishonest.