Diablo IV - An Argument for Limited Respecs and Choices with Gravity - Feedback

Respeccing the constellation takes a crafting material. Wouldnt call that free.
I believe respeccing cost for skills increases the more you respec, making it relatively expensive if you respec a lot? Cant respec every 5 minute with that.

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its actually a good idea, increasing the cost, depending on the time spent, after respecing
so when you respec once in a month, it wont cost you anything (maybe exp?)
but if you respec every hour, you will basically delevel your character

The word ā€œpermanentā€ is occasionally thrown around in these discussions, but the points being discussed are, at best, a false sense of permanence. D2 had an infinite respec mechanism - it was called ā€œcreating another characterā€. Basically, all (computer?) games have respec, it is just the cost of respec that is being discussed.

If you want real permanence then these games would have to be tied into a universal unforgeable identity and you get to create one single character for the life of you the human being. Then youā€™d have to live with your choices. But, barring that, you really donā€™t live with the choices, you just deal with a respec difficulty metric (RDM?).

I completely understand the ā€œliving with your choicesā€ aspect of the sense of D2 ā€œpermanenceā€, but most of the friends I know that enjoy that level of ā€œliving with your choicesā€ take a completely different approach to embracing that feeling - they participate in non-computer RPG games instead. There the cost of renewing yourself is much higher as the human in charge of the game will not likely put up with your wanting to bring in a new character on a week by week, or even month by month basis. (Others still, go out and live a life of choices rather than playing a game, but Iā€™m not one to judge a life of gaming as Iā€™d lose that evaluation. :wink: )

Whether respecing is as easy as D3 (or easier?) or as hard as ā€œone spec per yearā€ is just going to make a demographic change in how much various groups want to play the game and there is quite a bit of overlap in those choices. I doubt anyone would say ā€œif respec took less than 3 days, or more than 5 days, then Iā€™m outā€, and it seems that quite a number of people play D3 despite having a place in their hearts for D2 and its much higher barrier for respecā€™ing.

Perhaps they could design various levels of a game, similar to Softcore and Hardcore, where beginners and light casual gamers could play with a low barrier for respec and others could play in a different ā€œleagueā€ with a higher barrier. Separate leaderboards and group play, etc. In some sense, HC was born out of a larger sense of ā€œpermanenceā€ just as the desire for different levels of respec cost.

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ā€˜if D4 is to have more endgame content than D3, then it will be a big problem not to be able to respec infinitely.ā€™
i agree.

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That is great, but no reason a video game cant do the same.

Yes, indeed.
It should certainly be possible to respec, but at a cost/cooldown.

That is strengths and weaknesses for a build. Do I choose a mobility skill to help with Bounties, but maybe make me weaker in GRift pushing?
This is exactly why there has to be a respec cost/cooldown.

i claim it should, whyā€¦?
the respec topic is about 3 months old, itā€™s a problem created through comparing properties of different games.

just leave it be, if D4 loses itā€™s D3 properties too much, with unneeded new properties from other games, the franchise is in danger.

for sure when free D3 stuff will get monetized in D4ā€¦

I understand your point, but it will result in ā€œkicked from gameā€, trust me.

It will be the same for everyone.
If it is an issue, dont allow people to kick each other.

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i think gating respeccing in any form is not popular and will result in a lower playercount.

so, just donā€™t make it an issue;
i prefere complains at forums, above having the D2/POE playerbase flooding in, replacing the D3 playerbase and killing the franchise forever.

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Iā€™d bet it would be the opposite.
An A-RPG needs a respec cost/cooldown.

well, imho, D3 is doing quite fine on this topic, until a few months ago someone started making a fuzz about it.

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because ppl who like this genre are not playing D3
those ppl came back because david kim asked them to

luckily, this is the D3 forum;
not the central command. :sunglasses:

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A lot of the systems thet didnt exist in D2 were missing due to limitations in some way, or were just not considered as a possibility. If you recall, respecing was later added. Although, for a limited amount of times (1 for each difficulty). Same for adding sockets. Want more sockets, make another char and burn their quest rewards.

Iā€™m not against needing to make multiple chars for build diversity, muling, or simply to gain access to quest rewards (runes from the forge). I used to make at least 1 of each class and level/gear them up each season. Then at the start of the next season, give away all my loot and delete the chars and start over. Sure it takes time, and we have a limited amount of it. As long as the leveling experience is fun, then it.doesnt matter. The ā€œend gameā€ shouldnt be where all the fun is. You shouldnt have to hit max level to finally start ā€œplayingā€ the game. Even some of the best items dropped at really low levels. There were no max level versions of good items you found at lower levels. The items were just that good.

My biggest fear is that they put a really low limit on the amount of chars you can have at one time. And/or use this as an opportunity to sale char slots (ie: 1 or 2 slots to start and then charge for each additional).

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i dare to guess that wonā€™t be a problem;
-getting a stashtab for each character without paying is an issue imo.

A fear I have as well. Honestly, should have at least 30-50 character slots by default.

I would actually be fine with leaning more towards the Character side as opposed to Setup side if the D4 devs put some serious effort into integrating character builds with the campaign narrative, a la The Bandits in Path of Exile but juiced up so that thereā€™s some structure to the role-play. Iā€™m all for having a backstory for your character and I often have one in mind when playing other titles like Fallout, say, but Iā€™d have a hard time wanting to adhere to the character concept in a game like D3 where Iā€™d essentially have to make it all up ex-nihilo.

The problem is that making decisions about how to build my character based on story-considerations runs exactly counter to how Iā€™d build a character for efficacy, and so I think in any game where the narrative becomes that important, the end-game has to take a backseat in the devs minds, or else your game has two heads / lacks focus. The same problem crops up where (1) I make RP Witch Doctor, it sucks because RP so I (2) have to go through the slog of building up an End-Game Witch Doctor and gain nothing from the experience - precisely because leveling an end-game build is entirely besides the point of having it, whereas with the story character growing with it is the entire point. Iā€™d rather they fully committed to one or the other than picked some middle-ground option.

TLDR : If Story-focused, no respecs. If End-Game loop is the focus, give me unlimited respecs.

oh! lol;
i didnā€™t had that amount in mind, np
but that amount wonā€™t be reached: i think 20 max.
-think of all that inventory, itā€™s a technical roadblock.

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No reason it should be a roadblock honestly. Cant take that much harddrive space to save. And you can only have one character logged in at any time.

But Iā€™d say, at least 5 character slots per class in the game. To allow for a decent amount if different builds.

I believe WoW has a 50 character slot limit.

it was a chokepoint at the start;
they solved it then by gating more stashtabs behind seasons. :nauseated_face: