You named yourself after a scientologist
check mate
Sometimes it helps. Wouldnât be the first time I have walked into work, knocked out my boss and then went on to a better job.
Ok, so here is my 20 cents on the whole concept of skills and resets, not that anyone asked for it⌠oh wait maybe Blizzard did⌠and before anyone goes off on me for low post count blah blah blah, I donât normally get involved in the forums due to the toxicity levels that eventually emerge, thatâs just my choice, so here goes.
I like OPâs idea of approaching D4 from a realism standpoint, I can verify that having that sense of realism helps to draw players into the character and the game as a whole. I used to Americaâs Army 3, I also was in the US Army for many years, and the level of realism the developers put into the way that character moved and interacted with the environment made me feel like I was the character. It was the first time I ever got nervous when playing a game to the point where my hands started to sweat and my heart rate increased when it came down to just me against 3 or 4 other people. The level of immersion was intense, and I loved it, I loved every single second of it, and if I managed to somehow win against overwhelming odds, the feeling was indescribable.
So with that being said, I have an idea. I have been in the martial arts since I was 4 years old ( and I was born in 1977, so do the math ), and when I first started learning to use my first weapon, a bo staff, I was pretty terrible at it. Sure itâs just a long stick, and anyone can swing a long stick around, that is not hard, but that is not how you use it in a combat situation. You have to have control of the weapon (strength), a certain level of grace and finesse are required (dexterity) to not accidentally hit yourself with it, understand how to flow form one strike to another both effectively and efficiently (intelligence and stamina). But then also there are basic techniques, which you learn at first, and then more advanced techniques which you pick up later on. the more I used the bo staff the better I got at it, and the more advanced techniques I was able to preform, but the basis is that I didnât just instantly learn a new technique and be able to perform it perfectly, I had to practice that technique over time in order to master it and move on to a new one. Along the way I also learned how one technique could be combined with another or several more to create combinations.
Eventually I mastered that bo staff, and moved on to other weapons such as the samurai sword. Now the longer I focused on the samurai sword, and the longer I didnât use the bo staff, the lower my skill in the bo staff became. Not that I forgot how to use it altogether, no no no, I was still able to use the bo staff, and my skill level did not diminish immediately upon picking up the katana, but gradually over time, my skill in the bo staff began to lessen because I was not using it.
So can all of this be applied to D4? I will use a Barbarian as an example, but the principle applies across the board to all classes. Say I start out with a single, one handed axe. I am new at it. Never used one before. So I have a core basic axe skill in my skill tree, a large square with a single axe pictured in it. I go out and start basic axe swinging. But my axe can be in either hand, cause I am not disabled, I am however right hand dominant, so more than likely, I use the axe in my right hand in order to achieve the most damage possible., but I could place it in my left hand ⌠and take a hit to my strength, intelligence, stamina, and dexterity. So letâs keep it in my right hand. Since it is in my right hand, I use my right mouse button to attack. One click, one strike. The more I use my axe, the more proficient I become with it and my large square box in my skill begins to fill with experience. Now I hit level 2 with axe, and suddenly two clicks, two strikes in succession ⌠a combo granting more xp gain. Now level 3 with axe, three clicks, three strikes, another combo and two quick clicks, and long hold, another combo with a strong attack at the end, even more xp gain for my core axe skill. At lvl 5, sub skills become available, I can ad a shield or another axe. This is where the diversity comes in.
Now that I can equip an item in both hands, things get a little crazy. Because in real life, I can switch hands. I could use my axe in my right hand and my shield in my left, or vice versa, and this effects the type of attacks and the type of combos I am able to perform. So with two axes equipped, I can use my right mouse button to attack with my right hand axe, and my left mouse button to attack with my left hand axe; with a shield in my left hand and an axe in my right hand, I can use my left mouse to attack with my shield, pushing the enemy away, and then my left mouse button to attack with my axe, leaping or dashing forward to close the distance to my slightly staggered enemy, and hack away in either 1, 2, or 3 left clicks in quick succession, or click once and then click and hold for a 2 hit strong attack, but I could also choose to switch and put my shield in my right hand, and my axe in my left, this would bolster my defense (cause right handed) but lower my offense.
As I continue to lvl up my skills in axe/shild, and use the axe/shield combo, my skills in dual weilding begin to lose xp gradually. I donât ever forget them, but they just become less effective dealing less damage and enemies are more easily able to dodge and parry my attacks if I decide to go back to using them at some point.
So instead of immediately learning a skill and being a master at it, and just assigning it to a skill bar, skills become more efficient as you use them, unlocking new combinations and new possibilities, and those combinations and possibilities can be altered based on how the weapons are equipped, but essentially I can only use one weapon type efficiently at a time. And not through skill points, because that is not how skill works. Switching to another weapon type, has the same effect. So if I am lvl 30 and have been dual wielding axes the entire time, then switching to a one handed sword would result in having to learn to use that from scratch, or maybe, since I am lvl 30, I have developed some levels of strength, dexterity, intelligence, and stamina that switching is not a complete start over⌠as some skills from some weapons do roll over to others , but just the basics, not all advanced techniques are the same, clearly, and I use the one handed sword, I can move into two swords, and then two-handed, but if I have not used a shield with an axe, then using a shield with a sword would not be any easier, and I would have to learn that skill from scratch.
i think this solves the respec issue and adds a level of diversity and realism at the same time. I can change how I want to play at anytime, but the penalty is that I lose skill xp in how I was playing, and would have to re-earn those skills if I wanted to go back to them. Of course, it would have to be balanced out so that you couldnât be a master at every weapon all at the same time, or maybe you could⌠maybe that would ok too, dual wield an axe and a sword, and have special combos that play into it depending on witch hand the sword is in⌠the diversity for this is off the chain, I think anyway, and then you could add in the ability to carry two sets of weapons like in Grim Dawn. So a sorc could have a wand and tomb, and a two handed staff, and switch between them in combat, and have completely different skills and combos.
So I think you all get where I am coming from on this. Discuss. Feel free to agree or disagree, itâs just an idea I had, but please do not get toxic with responses, thanks.
2 Likes
Right⌠youâre playing a game about demons and angels and magic for ârealismââŚ
If you donât like a respec system nobody is forcing you to use it. Those of us who donât enjoy spending 10 hours leveling a character for almost no reason can go about our lives as usual
3 Likes
Its a huge difference between fixing, changing your mind or playing with the intention to switch out your build all 10 minutes to have the best conditions for every challenge
Are you aware that itâs the definition of RPG, not ARPG? The way you describe your feeling when playing, does feel to me like when Iâm playing Skyrim. Realism that is.
Whatâs the point of switching skills freely if you donât have the items to support it? And by the time you have more supporting items, all skills have been unlocked for long already, thus no need for respec at all.
Its still an aRPG xD not an action arcade game xD
Its funny how ppl think, the âaâ completely erases the âRPGâ. makes no sense to keep those letters in the name, then. The point is that your character loses its identity when itâs an omnipotent demigod that can do everything when he got the items for it.
Donât see anyone addressing WHY respeccing is required these days. Games today, as opposed to the early 00s, receive constant updates. Updates that alter balance via nerfs or buffs. And these updates can take place multiple times a day in some cases. Whenâs the last time a game released in a truly finished state? Thatâs the last time they could afford not to allow people to respec.
Next problem, it chases off two key demos. First being the subset of hardcore players who like testing. The other is casuals, who likely wouldnât know X skill is broken and may very well move on if faced with being forced to reroll.
Casuals catch a lot of flack, but as a game ages and hardcore players burnout, some of those casuals become more and more devoted to a game. They also tend to be much better at getting other players to try a game later in its life. A game needs these players or else it will fail. Both from a profit standpoint and longevity.
The testers, theyâre the ones that determine how like 90% of a games population plays. Theyâre the people that influence a games balance as time goes on. By making the OP builds, but also pointing out how other things need to be balanced to bring them into line. They basically maintain a games health.
You can limit respeccing some how. With that, you face the risk of them deciding to start selling some sort of token to bypass the limit in place though. The more limits you ask for, the more things publishers know they can charge for.
Blizzard isnât the Blizzard of old. They arenât going to make a game that doesnât appeal to the widest market possible. People donât have the time or patience to reroll 25hrs into a game bc a couple of skills donât fit what theyâre trying to do. This is a key reason why MMOs have virtually died off in favor of MMO-lites. (In short, we went from games that rewarded you for playing them to games that donât give people who play a lot any advantages) A developer canât make games that demand 30+hrs a week and keep Activision happy. Even if that game creates a self-sustaining economy which keeps a full team of devs working year round for 20yrs.
In the near future, we wonât have to worry about it. Theyâll streamline the leveling right out of rpgs so new players wonât need to worry about choosing stats or skills on lvl up. Iâm only half kidding bc I almost expect D4 to have a battle royale mode.
Straight rpg fans have been fighting this battle for nearly 2 decades as they all turned to arpgs. Do you honestly believe your attempts to slow the âstreamliningâ down will fair any better? Good luck, because THIS battle was lost a long time ago.
The RPG aspect of this game I feel went away with d2 sadly. D3 is nothing more then a hack and slash dungeon crawler that could have even been pulled on as a mobile game without losing much really. A game that can almost be played blind folded.
I like the idea of mtx for unlimited respecs :3
But I still really support respecs. Just not on a regular daily base.
I dont understand all of the hate for D3. Itâs a perfectly fine ARPG dungeon looter. I, personally, have no interest in having multiple variations of a class individualized as separate characters when I could just simply revise my skills on the one character Iâve been using. The leveling process, as is, is already monotonous enough. To have to do it multiple times for a different spec on the same class is a no go for me.
I hear a lot of love for âthe good ol daysâ of D2, but man, yâall are a pretty loud a$$ minority compared to the overall breadth of folks that jumped on at D3 and, you know, still actually play the game.
To that end, some one said it well. If you dont like the (optional) game mechanic, you are free to eff off and not use it. Itâs not like anyone cares whether you do one way or the other.
3 Likes
Iâve played an mmo where after you used up your free respec, you could get more via mtx; it was quite horrendous in all honesty (and it was thankfully changed later on).
Since the devs asked us to drop our feedback and said, they wanna go back to the OLD things and make a game for long time fans of the genre. We will just keep complaining. 
And there are some people not worried about either and just want to have fun. Example. Started off with a Shield Bash build on my first Crusader. Love the talent. Ended up getting a legendary that worked with Blessed Hammer.
Now while it made things die faster, it was more fun to play with the modded hammers instead of shield bash. If this was D2 or a game with a stricter respec policy, I would not have had that opportunity. I never would have gone with hammers because Iâve been there done that in D2.
I appreciate the illustrative examples and i can see how a system like you described can be made as a viable compromise between no respecs vs. easily swappable skills. One approach that could work would be for the game to keep track of âaffinityâ ranks on skills that a character is using and has used in the past. As affinity for a specific skill grows, affinity for skills of the same type diminishes a bit. So if a skill reaches 100% affinity it is at maximum effectiveness (damage/range/duration), but as this affinity approaches max, previous skills of the same type (primary attack/ultimate/support/etc) lose a little bit of affinity. I would argue at about 50% affinity as the lowest value, since the character doesnt totally forget how to use the skill. Just rusty from not having used it in a while. I suppose that affinity can increase by keeping track of monsters killed (or maybe xp gained) while using said skill. Maybe a rank of 1 to 10 for affinity can be assigned to each skill unlocked. So at rank 10 affinity, the skill gains full effectiveness. At rank 5, the skill is at 50 % effectiveness. Will be a fair amount of extra work for the devs, but may be a good compromise for those that want to be able to swap skills as they please and those that want more permanence/realism. Btw, used âaffinityâ as a placeholder term. Feel free to change with a cooler or more appropriate one. Thoughts?
You must be a troll supporting OP. Every RPG has respec. If you donât like respec, just donât play it, or just donât respec. And let the other 99.9% of the players enjoy respec.
4 Likes
You know this really doesnât happen. And if it does itâs gonna be by a select few pro types not the typical player. In fact, I know we say things like itâs great to be able to switch on the fly or when we feel like, no one is in here claiming they do this at all.
How dare you ask somone not to use a gsme function they despise. Itâs in the game and it it forces them to and it marginalizes their choices.
The thing is, forcing me to reroll doesnât stop me from having a build for any given situation. Iâm still going to have Helltooth and Jade Harvester. All it does is strong-arm me into playing more early game than Iâd care to play. I donât see the allure in being forced to wait in line first unless thereâs strong story tie-ins.
Every arpg is practically identical now. Except not being like d2. And warhammer is rts âŚ