Diablo 4 - Who want to hear more about PVP?

General Discussion
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I personally wouldn’t consider Diablo 3 necromancer an upgrade over the Diablo 2 version; as once again you have no army to call upon. Sure the Diablo 3 necromancer has some builds that makes it popular and powerful in some aspects. But since it doesn’t fulfill the fantasy of having an army of minions, I find it a downgrade compared to it’s predecessor. But that’s only because the diablo 3 developers had a different vision for the Necromancer than what some of us may had hoped for, and as you can see, it had nothing to do with pvp.

Also considering that there was almost no way to protect yourself from magic damage in Diablo 2, and there was no raw damage reduction stat as there is in Diablo 3. A Diablo 2 Bone Necromancer (with enough fcr, mana potions, and an enigma) can certainly mow players down instantly in a flurry of Bone Teeth, Spears, and Spirits.

Where had the developers say that players will need to pvp in order to progress, level up, gain items, unlock contents and/or other features? In short will players need to kill one another in order to get through and beat the game? Unless the developers had said anything of the sort, then Diablo 4 is by no means a pvp game.

Take a look at the gameplay trailer and notice how the Sorceress couldn’t freeze the barbarian, when in earlier segments she was able to freeze monsters in the same number of hits or less.

Scripted or not, it shows that skills with cc effects may affect players differently from how they affect monsters, or at least that could be the developers intent otherwise the sorceress would’ve just froze the barbarian.

And the rest of their interview as well as blogs that came after blizzcon had done nothing but emphasize pve aspects, so again, the game is mostly pve with a little pvp thrown in.

Those games were made primarily for pvp, unlike Diablo 4 which will be made primarily for pve.

Well not much to be said, since you’re under the notion that Diablo 4 will be a pvp game (despite the developers saying nothing of the sort). I for one hope that they continue developing the game with pve foremost in mind, then followed by pvp.

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I am not saying there shouldn’t be PvP. I’m saying, that despite there being PvP, so far there hasn’t been a good implementation, and that includes D2.

I would like to see good, decent PvP.

Vanilla PvP was also a joke for the exact same reason D2 PvP was a joke… too much burst damage, not enough opportunities to actually outplay each other.
Most classes were unfinished at the time, with the rogue being the most complete (as in having most tools and abilities he was meant to have), but having insane damage to the point, that he would two-shot someone and would not even have time to use many of the tools at his disposal.

That’s why I’m saying, that Season 3, 4, 7 and 8 of WoW Arenas were examples of good PvP in an RPG… because there weren’t as burst and people could actually outplay each other…
And when it comes to WoW, that quite literally is the consensus among top players.

As to other MMOs, most were total garbage in terms of PvP, the only somewhat interesting system I’ve encountered was the PvP in DC Universe Online… but unfortunately, there were too many hackers in that game and the devs weren’t banning them, which eventually made me quit.

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So for lack of a better option is why? I would be pleasantly surprised indeed if D4 PvP explored alternatives to 100% control-disabling effects.

It would be cool to be able to build a character like that in D4.

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It’s a clueless opinion being parroted by delusional players. David Kim, being a true pvper, will hopefully be able to recognize informed relevant opinions and disregard the uninformed antipvp whineposts.

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I am 100% sure his whole team knows that. I just feel like a lot of people in here think, that a successful game is some kind of magic / hype thing.

In fact it is a lot of hard work and a lot of science put into it. David Brevik, David Kim and Chris Wilson showed that with D2, SC2 and PoE very unambiguously. And facing problems, that e.g. Trade and PvP bring, instead of circumventing them, is key. (Yes, GGG found a way to longevity of the game without PvP, but that took a few years of very open minded and creative game design)

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D3 Necromancer has Skeleton Warriors, Skeleton Mages that actually killing things, and Golem. So I don’t know what kind of D3 Necromancer version that you are using.

Still has nothing compare to D3 Necromancer who can literally freeze you on the entire screen, following by homing skeleton warriors that can freeze the target and unlimited homing high damage bone lance spam until the Land of Dead expired.

If I am a D4 PVP developer, I will pick over D2 PVP Necro over D3 PVP Necro as it is easier to balance and feel down to earth.

I never say any of that. I am simply saying that D4 was made with PVP in mind, so the skills and the power of itemization may tone down to the D2 level instead of the D3 level. So all the D3 ridiculous fun builds most likely won’t make it to D4.

As I said in my previous post, we don’t know that Barb may have an anti-freeze item or passive against freeze or the frost bolt is chance-based. In fact, you made a conclusion just from a few second clip is just too hasty.

Then they have no reason to say “build from the ground with PVP in mind” when they could easily tell us “D4 has PVP, THX BYE”. Again, just because the PVP blog come late or haven’t come out doesn’t mean the game isn’t revolving around the PVP aspect. As I said in my previous post, itemization and skills may be tone down for PVP.

D4 Developers said otherwise, and David Kim. You shouldn’t deny his existence. He is there for a good reason.

Of course, I am under the notion that D4 will be a PVP oriented game because the developers said so. SC2 has a campaign too but in your eye, would you consider SC2 a PVP game or a PVE game, if I want to choose one answer from my
question?

It is hilarious enough for me because I never imagine the day that D2 fans and D3 haters were actually ridiculing GGG for failing the PoE PVP when they were the same group that worshipping and praising GGG in the past.

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I mean, some people on this forum forum have been made to believe that tuning some numbers requires a whole lot of work so… anything goes here.

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Who exactly are you to try to tell me, that people wasnt playing Diablo for PVP?
Cause i was playing it at its peak and damn know how many people are playing for it. It was the end game and every single one was going towards that.
So pretty much everyone wanted to level high and to get best gear for solid PVP.
Its obvious from the comments of most people here that they liked Diablo 2 PVP a lot and they obviously played it a lot. End of the thread.

Maybe you are 33 years old, who knows, maybe you are just 15 years old, who knows ? I don`t care really!

You got your opinion i got mine.
Your judging a 20 years old game by today standard and saying stuffs that simply arent true.
Most people were unhappy with the lack of PVP in D3 and was crying for it and was saying how much they miss D2 PVP, but i guess no one really played PVP in D2, lol !

As far as one shooting. I dont recall getting one shooted by Blizard. It was a slow skill to use, and hard to actually land, and yeah it does a lot of damage, but unles you running glass cannon, most of the time you aren`t going to get one shoot by it. Or you are a complete robot and stay under the blizard … :smiley:
I guess that you are right in that way, it can one shoot you, because you are just bad …

What exactly selling whatever it is have to do with a game PVP ?
Just because you dont like PVPs of a certain games, that doesn`t mean they dont have good PVP.
This aint FPS, you cant expect your mechanical skills, positioning, etc to carry you out. If you think this is “PVP” go play that genre.
BTW Lost Ark even have PVP tournament if im not wrong.
Blizard are not idiots, they know what they are doing.

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He’s a bit confused I think. Saying weird stuff like wow arena being the only good mmo setting for pvp which is as far away from the truth as it can get. I think the problem is that some posters equate almost perfect balance with pvp and anything that falls short of that is not worthy to be considered good pvp.

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Diablo 3 necromancers summons feel less of an army and more of a party (especially since skeleton mages have a finite duration), while Diablo 2 necromancers summons actually feel like an army; so yeah Diablo 3 necromancers didn’t live up to my fantasy of a summoner who commands a large force. Don’t get me wrong though, the class is still fun in it’s own way, and the Golem is really cool looking (especially the ice and poison variant).

Yet there exist items and skills in Diablo 3 that grant cc immunity; so freezing everyone wouldn’t be so op since there are plenty of countermeasures against it. Compare that to Diablo 2 where you couldn’t resist magic damage or if you were incased in a bunch of bone prisons without a teleport skill (or leap if you’re lucky); you’d be dead in a heartbeat. Of course, in Diablo 3 you’d still get nearly 1-2 shot even without being frozen, but that’s not unique to the Diablo 3 necromancer; nearly every class with a proper build (as in full set or LoD build) can instantly kill other players due to how crazily high damage is.

I mean it’s to be expected that not every single build that existed in Diablo 3 will make a return to Diablo 4. I mean do you know how many fun Diablo 2 builds never made it into Diablo 3, or that some of them that did were mere shadows of the previous game’s iteration. That had little to do with pvp and more of just the developers decisions. Also I don’t mind they tone the numbers down as having high numbers doesn’t make the game fun imo.

Based on what info we currently have with the sorceress ice skills. Their freezing potential isn’t to chance (at least not the frost bolt skill), instead they chill and lower the enemy’s movement speed until the enemy becomes frozen. Based on the trailer, the monsters movement became noticeably slower with each hit until they were frozen. However the Barbarian, after becoming chilled by the first frost bolt, didn’t seem to become any slower even after the second frost bolt had hit him. Now we could say that the skill had less effectiveness against a player, or that it’s thanks to an item, or an ability that the barbarian had. Either way, it shows me that players can’t effectively hard cc one another as easily as they could monsters.

Or maybe because they wanted to assure players who liked pvp that Diablo 4 pvp won’t be as much as an afterthought of an implementation as Diablo 3 brawl was. I mean Diablo 3 went and said “Hey guys we have pvp!” too; and we saw how badly that turned out. So I’m guessing they figured doing the same thing won’t cut it for the people who want pvp. I honestly hope we don’t get a repeat of Diablo 3 brawl.

I don’t deny anyone’s existence, but until they say that Diablo 4 will be developed primarily as a pvp game; I’m certainly going to deny your reasoning regarding that and instead continue to look forward to the pve aspect of the game as well as the pvp.

The developers said nothing of the sort. Lastly actions speak louder than words, and I’ve yet to see any actions by them that suggest that Diablo 4 is planned to be a pvp game foremost.

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Even without Land of The Dead- Frozen, the normal Land of The Dead, the unlimited high-speed+damage homing corpse lance is still too much to handle even if you included 99% damage reduction. Best of all, you don’t even need to manually cast the corpse lance.

I am not saying D2 Necromancer isn’t deadly. I am simply saying that D3 Necromancer style is just unfair and ridiculous to fight which is not something a fair PVP game will endorse.

I am not talking about the big number though. More towards a tone down game design where your character shoots 1 straight line laser (D2 style) or your character shoots 30 homing lasers (D3 style), and obviously the “30 homing lasers” design will not make into D4 because it will be ridiculous in PVP.

Considering that the “Cannot be Frozen” affix already exists since the D2 era, I don’t know why would you think the players have no defense on crowd control and have to rely on the special PVP rule to mitigate the crowd control.

So, I guess you do seriously think that stun, frozen, blind will get replaced to chilled/slowed in the D4 PVP arena?

Of course, we won’t get another D3 brawl in D4 because this time, they are determined to make it work.

Do you ever consider the possibility that they want to make D4 PVP an e-sport? That is why they brought the big gun (David Kim) to D4 development so early.

The developer said that D4 was made with PVP in mind.

https://www.diablofans.com/news/49145-diablo-iv-community-group-q-a

  • Diablo IV has been developed from the ground up with PvP in mind. Diablo III had issues with balancing the game around PvP, but with Diablo IV PvP is factored into every development choice. The game will PvP.

Again, until the Blizzard says that “Actually, no. PVP is secondary, PVE is main” in their next interview, I will take their current stance that PVP is the core of the D4 where itemization and skills will be adjusted accordingly around PVP.

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But there is no such thing as perfect balance.
Perfectly agree with everything you state.
Some people are just unhappy with everything i guess.
No need to waste more time on him.
I already said what i think about the topic.
PVP is a must.

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DId you play AION, the first so called WOW killer? PvP there was nice.

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I did on release, I still keep the box.
It was poor game on release in so many ways, I would have to write a freaking book.
However, a friend of mine told me the game got better when he started playing it… maybe a year after me.
However, few years later I got him to try WoW. It during Warlords, which was crappy in terms of PvP balance, and even then he conceded, that WoW is clearly the better game in terms of PvP.
Later in that expansion, I obtained enough gear and made a macro, that allowed me to kill people mid-air… so poor was the balance in WoW at the time… and I still found that better than Aion :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s not what I said. There were certainly PvP communities.
I’m trying to say, that the balance was poor and despite the damage penalty when hostility was enabled, despite maxing resistances and adding absorbs, the damage was too high.

I’m saying, that the only people who thought that was meaningful PvP were ones, who were bad at FPS and RTS.

True… but there’s such a thing as engaging PvP, where skill and outplaying each other comes into play, and Diablo 2 PvP wasn’t that.

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This is not true rofl. The only dmg that couldn’t be properly mitigated was Magic, aka Hammerdins and Bone spear necros. Thos abilities were fairly telegraphed and not too hard to avoid though assuming you had equal FCR and some anticipation skills.

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It was long time ago when I played AION. What I liked was mode where 2 teams raced in PVE environment (they start from different entrances) and who was faster with clear would get more chests = more rewards. They could go hostile on each other in main room also :slight_smile: (If I remember correctly).

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Well, just about any Diablo 3 build would be lethal in a pvp scenario (for example Hydras, Multishot, Wave of Light, etc.); the necromancer is no exception. Even in Pre-RoS most of the brawls I’ve been in or seen rarely lasted more a couple of seconds (this includes people kiting). That’s of course not to say that all of Diablo 2 duels were long skirmishes of any kind as some of them were brief as well. However the duration of a single Diablo 2 duel could range from a few seconds to a few minutes, dependent on the class/build matchup as well as the capabilities of the engaging players.

Also the affix “can’t be frozen” wasn’t absolute as Holy Freeze was able to bypass it and still rendered players chilled. That said, I still expect stun (and blind) to work in pvp, albeit with a much lessened duration than compared to it used in pve.

Now certainly some skills and/or builds from Diablo 3 may not return for Diablo 4 (just as some skills and builds from Diablo 2 didn’t make it for Diablo 3). The developers seem intended on slowing down the pacing of Diablo 4’s combat, which I agree with. However it’s too early to say as we haven’t even seen the last two classes and there’s the chance that we’ll see the skill tree expanded. Also who’s to say that Diablo 4 pacing will remain slow, after all, Diablo 3 vanilla endgame combat pacing was a lot slower than Diablo 2 LoD endgame (Diablo 3 endgame combat pacing only started to speed up drastically after RoS).

I can only hope so, however Diablo 3 brawl left a bitter taste that still remains today; so honestly I can’t really get hyped for Diablo 4 pvp until after the game’s launch.

Honestly, I don’t see that as them saying that pvp will be the primary focus of the game. Instead it just says to me that pvp won’t be an effortless afterthought like Diablo 3’s brawl. Only time will tell though if that’s to be the case.

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I’m really excited about PvPvE. Without interesting PvP mechanics and rewards I’ll be playing the game only for the campaign and then uninstall it.

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Great, Blizzard will get your money :moneybag: and the rest of us will get more server space. :desktop_computer:

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Sure, like D3, lot of server space for you and many players :rofl:

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