The thing is… they need to make it incredibly difficult to get fully geared out. There should be items above the Legendaries that can outdo them, like really well rolled rare/yellow items.
In Diablo 3, you see someone is geared out by the fact that they have the same ancient set items/legendaries as the other guys on the leaderboard. In D2, the absolute best players would have some gear that was unique to their characters, like really well rolled rares.
If the itemization is near endless, then your gear should do the talking, not paragon.
Call me cynical, but i don’t think they should implement any features from Diablo 3. In my honest opinion, they should look at Diablo 2/Lod as a foundation, and build/refine off of that. Diablo 3, ugh, even thinking about that game annoys me.
You will likely be disappointed then. IMO, the itemization is just about the most important thing in a Diablo game and the developers are quoted as saying that D4 itemization is a refined version of the D3 itemization.
The game is years upon releasing, anything can happen. We can’t be passive like we were on the Diablo 3 beta forums because look what happened, the vanilla boys were mistaken as the majority, when they were a minority. We need to be vigilant and blow up the D4 forums when they are released. The reason so many people are excited about D4 is finding any resemblance of D2 being a foundation during development moving forward, we have to constantly remind them of that.
The way Paragon works in D3 is a reflection of a poor progression design to begin with.
It was clearly implemented to make up for the lack of any meaningful progression, since Max Lvl was at the reach of every single players and, after that, there wasn’t any progression goals/rewards, beside gearing.
That being said, if they design both Leveling System and Paragon Like System to work together and Complement each other, with a sense of progression towards something, it can work.
But they have to be designed as a whole, not as completely separate things.
What if the max pg lv was 100 but it should take sometime to get to 100 like when paragon was first intruduced in D3. The points is not for stats like put 20 in attack 20 in ms and so on, but instead you could use your pg points for example crafting. When you use pg points you enhance the quality of the crafted item etc. Or maybe when you achived 100 pg points then you can trade 1 mythic item for all your points. This way the player always have pg points to earn and it will also feels like progress.
It’s quite simple really… A paragon type system that allows for character progression and growth after max lvl is great. Allow players to feel some sort of progression after a bad item RNG play session so they still feel engaged to play.
The problem is when it becomes essentially “infinite” power creep when it comes to a “competitive” leader board, like with D3. People able to dedicate the time for 5000+ more main stat to achieve higher content rather than just learning the game and fine tuning a toon is where it becomes toxic.
If you can put in the time to grind the gear, learn the in’s and out’s of the game mechanics and really hone your skills, then you deserve the leader board spot. Your ability to 4man GR farm for an extra 400 hours alone shouldn’t do that.
PoE’s map system has nothing to do with paragon.
In PoE you can reach lvl 100.
The biggest percentage of players starting a new league never get close.
They don’t call it paragon but it is the same thing and capped at 100.
You are on the 1 - 70 in PoE (D3 style) until you start maps.
So effectively paragon begins when you finish the 10 acts and get’s capped at 100.
I wouldn’t mind Paragon levels as long as they cap at 800.
It is nice to get some extra stats like cooldown reduction, but in the long run progress should be based on improving your skill as a player rather than endless grinding for mainstat.
This would also help make botting less effective.
Their idea was to let every player reach the max level and be able to use every skill. At the time almost everyone tought it was a nice idea. It isn’t nice to have your character “incomplete”.
I guess we were wrong xD
I prefer the Diablo 2 leveling system nowadays.
Most builds didn’t even need to get to 99 to be maxed out
Particularly the max level I’ve reached playing online was level 94, and 97 on single player because it’s easier.
I think the amount of hours played to reach level 99 is a bit too much, maybe the amount of experience to get to 98 would be fine for me
It’s like there’s a competition to try and bring back all the outdated features of D2.
As for the topic in question, the game needs a way to improve your character that is not tied to the RNG of item drops. The best thing about the Paragon system is that it’s a way to slowly improve my character every time I log in. So yeah, D4 needs a Paragon like system.
The feature is not outdated. Think of this, with the level cap potentially being 40 ( not yet set in stone ) . You could potentially reach that feat in no time. I know they mentioned during a interview that the time sink would be greater than it currently is in diablo 3 to reach 70.
Also If they decide to completely drop durability then dying becomes meaningless. Which makes it rather bland and boring. You will say Oh cool i died i’ll just keep going nothing happens anyways
As for paragon it really needs to go. Why does an ARPG need infinite levels to boost your stats? Isn’t there a point in a game where you do all you can to make your character the most powerful it can be and have fun just destroying everything on the map? Paragon and sets are a huge reason why the creep score on d3 is out of control. No reason to blast monsters with 70 trillion hp if they die in 3 seconds. Would be the same if they had 70thousand and died in 3seconds.
If there will be PvP, and d4 has paragon. Good luck with that as people with more paragon would destroy you and you’d complain about wahhh its not fair hes strong wahhh. Assuming PvP would be in your endeavors
I’ll agree Paragon was something i never cared for.
D2 Level 99 Farm was truly a grind. Only reached it twice with the countless hours on the game.
Yes many people never hit 99 and didn’t seem to be bothered to not reach that feat because it added a skill point and 5 stat points. But at usually levels 75-85 or lower depending on the build you wanted to do that would suffice.
PvP in d4 with paragon will create problems which then they’d have to address the issue. But since they said their will be areas where you can go hostile and just kill people within that area will create alot of problems.
They should remove paragon but instead should introduce account currency… Account currency can be bought with real money or you can just play the game and earn it from hours played or achievements.
This currency can be used to buy cosmetic crap no one cares about… with the fanciest looking stuff costing so much it will take some loser 3000 hours of game play to attain… Then they can brag about being the first loser in the world to have it… or you know, someone with a job just goes and buys it for 10 bucks…
Either way, remove power buff benefits of plugging in more hours than other players… it’s bull****.
Hi. Never said that PoE’s map system is the equivalent of Diablo’s paragon. What i’m trying to say is that Paragon as it was inplemented in D3 is a terrible endgame system, and that there are other examples of endgame systems out there that encourage players to continue grinding it out in interesting ways than the mere accumulation of additional stats by function of gaining xp only, PoE’s map system as an example of one of them. Paragon as it was implemented in D3 as a source of infinite stat gain after hitting max level was a contributing source of power creep that wasnt necessary and if they don’t modify its implementation in D4 enough, then we will end up with the same problems that we had in D3. Paragon isn’t necessary at all, as long as there are other more enjoyable and progression-supporting activities in the endgame, even after we hit max level. Progression in stats and items that are earned by way of participating in enjoyable endgame content.
Just make trading and PVP the endgame, just like D2 was. Boom. You don’t need any kind of paragon system. you enter the game and you enjoy it mfing (pveing), trading and pvping.
Devs always say that they want players to have a feeling of getting something no matter they play 30 min or 8 hours. Well, it is not necessary that this gain be experience to gain levels, it can be simply fun. They are too obsessed with killing demons and no, that was never the core of what the saga is. Trading is fun, PVP is fun, mfing is fun, infinite paragon lvls are not fun.
