I didn’t like D2, I loved it. It was my favorite game at the time.
However, D2 is not immutable perfection. I am mature enough to see its flaws. Every game has flaws. Every game can be improved. This is particularly true for a game released 20 years ago where technical limitations led to design decisions that many would consider inferior.
In terms of the playerbase being split, this was true in D2 (D2 and D2:Lod X 4 games modes X 4 servers + how many more splits due to mods). D2R will also be split between (PC, playstation, XBOX, Nintendo switch) + mods too. A split D2 community also existed. It is part of what defined the community. A charm inventory is one of the nice things that was incorporated into mods for a reason.
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Why do we have to have a dichotomy between inventory space and charms? The point of the video is to demonstrate that its an illusion - or at least that you can break inventory tetris. So why bother with the inconvenience? If you couldn’t S/E with items as shown then it would be different. But you can. Are you going to suggest we remove that instead, part of the original diablo? Otherwise, what’s the point?
I watched the Video, you didn’t break inventory tetris you just used common work arounds that work for one item. Those workarounds come with pretty serious negatives though. Like not being able to actually be there for any further loot drops, possibly getting your items stolen when you drop and check, and more.
Not even to mention that the “workarounds” you used are literally just a part of how inventory Tetris works.
Diablo 2 can be improved By you no, by me no, by the original blizzard north team yes.
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Exactly, Blizzard wants to know about QoL improvements. This is something that was possible but made easier.
So if the lead designer of the original D2 said he wanted to change things in D2 (like he tweeted and on video), you would be ok with that?
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That question would be valid if there wasn’t an easy way to break it - just save an exit with whatever item you want to hold…that dichotomy isn’t real or maybe people are just learning that you can do this for the first time and aren’t processing this well.
Diablo 2 isn’t perfect despite being so good. Its why its a good remaster candidate.
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That doesn’t break anything.
When an item is in hand you can’t cast spells, you can’t attack, and you can’t move. Saving and Exiting ensures you will miss out on all the loot that follows in the run.
Being able to pick up an item with your inventory full is a deliberate choice the Original devs made so you could sacrifice an item. It even counts as part of your inventory in Character Editors.
I would even go so far as to say that if the Dev’s didn’t want that pickup inventory spot their they would have deleted it ages ago.
I leave and rejoin in like 5 seconds. Not sure that this is a huge inconvenience or drawback - I get to go back to town even to empty inventory if needed
Why accept Inconvenience for inconvenience sake? there is an informal work around to having a full inventory.
This change is less radical then auto gold pickup.
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and if two unique items drop that you want what then?
If the Inconvenience is designed into the game then yes you accept it.
Final fantasy 11 online had a feature that when you died you lost exp, and could down level back to a previous level if you lost too much. Much of the gear in that game was designed around being lvl 75 the cap at the time. Down leveling meant much of your equipment became unusable after hitting 74 again lol. It was a pretty big deal to suddenly have half your equipment red.
Sometimes Jerhyu games have specifically designed punishments that are obviously quite inconvenient, but they are there by design.
That is really the question here that you still refuse to address. Are Charms designed specifically to limit your inventory space? My vote is yes I feel like they are.
To Further that point I feel like the devs deliberately placed the best effects on the largest charms to specifically make the choice between inventory space and effects a difficult one.
I do however feel like the question of whether or not Charms Were specifically designed to limit inventory space is one up for debate. If you can prove they were not designed to cause inventory problems then you would most likely get your QoL Charm Inventory.
Why do you all ignore that this inconvenience was deliberately programmed into the game?
I could argue immunities are just an inconvenience.
I am not saying the charm system is some amazing concept, its just very intentionally created. To remove it is a big thing since you are literally deciding to nullify an original design concept.
That doesn’t sound appropriate for day one of a remaster.
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My thoughts exactly, many games have deliberate inconveniences I even made a contrasting example above.
If the entire team of blizzard north decided to make a change yes.
We already went over this Diablo was made by “the big four” and an entire team backing them up not one person.
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I thought i addressed it but i’ll try to reiterate(maybe it was an edit). I’m not sure there was a dichotomy ever between it - or at least as extreme as some people think of it - maybe there was, but even so, should we continue with it now if its bypassed so easily especially since its in the game? You can still play inventory tetris even with the proposed change. Excess charms occupy inventory space. You might swap them for a better charm in your inventory, or you might stash what you’re using - but you’ll still be forced to do this at some point provided you picked up a charm.
You don’t lose loot like you’re implying - it would be highly unfortunate for you to S/E with an item and something worth something drop. Diablo 2’s good items are hard to find and it would be very rare to have this happen. Picking up stuff is really a matter of knowing what to pick up and when. The ITEM you S/E with is likely the only thing that is going to matter in the run.
Again - another reason for why i don’t think that tetris thing is sort of where they were going fully is that the work around of leaving with an item simply is there.
IF TETRIS IS SO valuable - you have to ask - should this be REMOVED in the remaster since it undermines inventory tetris so much? I mean, if its SO important in this particular way, then that’s the solution is it not? To change what was there before?
I am not arguing against constraints in general. I don’t want anything that WILL affect CORE gameplay. But if this has an informal work around, that undermines it then those constraints DO NOT REALLY EXIST if you know how to get around them.
You can bypass it with muling too. You can bypass it by BASIC inventory management. Its really not that hard. Its not really a ‘skill’ and arguably DISTRACTS from the rest of the game in this particular way when you’re forced to pick between things that your character ‘USES’ versus the convenience of more space.
Apparently some people here are running around with TP Tomes/Iden Tomes not realizing you can put these in your belt?
I for one don’t mind noobs who have never touched this game don’t have to do ‘hardcore’ inventory management when it comes to charms in 2021 and that other people who otherwise might have managed that inventory better have to compete with them for drops… You’re not really a better player at this game because you know how to empty your inventory. A noob who fails to inventory manage will likely never do so again when they miss their first drop. This change still allows for that…lesson? to occur.
Again, this change is less radical than auto-gold pickup. That feature has no informal way of doing it. You’re going to click. Click. Click. This does.
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I gotta get some sleep before work, or I would reply but I wanted to address this one statement first.
Gold pickup isn’t really controversial at all.
On the scale of keep in the same to change everything for the better I am very close to the keep it the same collum and I couldn’t care less about the auto gold pickup being added.
The addition of a charm inventory is a pretty drastic change in comparison to gold pickup.
Gold has very few actual uses in the game and the net gain gold from a gold pickup feature might buy you one gamble on a ring after a 100 games compared to picking it up yourself.
Because what stacks of gold did we ignore? The small ones right? We always picked up the big ones anyways.
Autogold pickup is only really going to pick us up the pocket change we didn’t want to bother with.
And at the end of the day gold is pretty useless in diablo 2 except for gambling. And you can sink an entire stash full of gold gambling and still not get anything worthwhile.
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Have you ever shopped a 3/20 ias java glove? A Jeweler’s armor of the whale? A Jeweller’s monarch of deflecting?
Or even some of the items at the beginning of a ladder season with open sockets/life/res? That’s partly how i survive at the start of ladder seasons on hardcore. I shop stuff. And it works. I barely have to trade for anything because i am able to get sufficient amounts of life/res that i can just wait to trade for the gear i want once i’ve got enough stuff. I am literally in stuff people would call cardboard. You do not NEED good gear to beat hell unlike Diablo 3’s torment when it first dropped.
Gold isn’t that worthless - especially at the start and when dupes/bots haven’t taken hold. And I hope there are no dupes/bots in the remaster. You will definitely rethink the value of large sums of gold especially when it drops.
It also still has no precedent in this game. Purists don’t like it and just because it seems to harm nothing doesn’t change that fact. This change I am proposing has an informal work around already in the game. Its inconvenient - but mildly so and the drawbacks to it really are overblown. In that sense, its FAR less problematic because it isn’t something totally NEW
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I think maybe it’s also because ppl make script to drop 1 gold over and over.
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Pasting my take on this from a previous thread because I haven’t seen any1 really bring up this point:
When Diablo launched there was a 10th of the items available today, with tremendously less power as well. Needless to say, the game has evolved way beyond that to keep the game entertaining, but things like the inventory system were never iterated on. Everyone who still plays D2 today has grown accustomed to the satisfying behavior of their character at max power with regards to the game in it’s current form - not 1.08, 1.01, or beta. It’s still an action RPG after all, and hangs in that category to this day among the best. When there is a question of {sacrifice} for power, power will win every single time, and is why every endgame character is bloated with charms to not only increase it, but flesh out builds with greater nuance.
That being said; The trade off is a huge concept in Diablo that shouldn’t be overlooked, or stifled in any way. Personally, I believe the inventory size just needs to be increased to coincide more closely with the volume of equipment that’s been added over the years- and regularly looted throughout the course of the game. As you mentioned, charms were not even yet implemented when the storage system was conceived- D2’s inventory feels more like a recycle from D1 that accommodates a very small range of items, and needs to be modernized to support the content that has been added over the years.
Path of Diablo for example did a great job increasing the inventory size, while designating the lower half (the full inventory size of d2 normally filled with charms) as the ‘active’ charm slot.
> https://pathofdiablo.com/img/inventory.png
It’s a good compromise that doesn’t fundamentally change inventory management or the way charms behave, and still forces people to consider the tetris/space trade-off crucial to the game. The space can be considered for either the charms, or extra space for loot. Even expanding the inventory by just 2-3 rows would do wonders, but realistically I see no issue with it being doubled.
We can all agree the stash needed to be increased to avoid unnecessarily frustrating players, so why not the inventory? every QoL mod for D2 has acknowledged this necessity, and has made some attempt to remedy the issue.
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Thank you for your insight. I didn’t get to play 1.08 or before. I also don’t play with mods( but i did go back years later and play diablo 1 and thought it was great).
I did go back and play Classic too. Its a very different game, with a vastly reduced item pool. Some items are good only in classic. The inventory could have evolved with it but it didn’t - its almost like charms were just a ‘big enough’ addition at the time when they were introduced but it was left at that.
I’d prefer not to change actual charms space due to ‘balance/PVP/Core game play reasons’ but the stash definitely is a welcome addition, but its not clear why inventory in some capacity should not be as well.
At this point we could ask Brevik what he thinks about the whole thing since some people seem DEEPLY convinced that inventory management/tetris somehow became a core feature of this game.
I also recognize at the time of my post/video that quite frankly who i am talking to is a small minority of people. The vast majority of people that will play this game aren’t watching or listening to the forums and this is the peril that comes with creating something too late. Blizzard will have to account to them in the end for how a game that was good but not perfect in 2000 plays in 2021. Frankly, I think there are things that can be done that do not change the core gameplay meaningfully and there is actually a good reason to remaster Diablo 2.
I do not think the same about Warcraft 3 - that game was far harder to remaster because it was so close to perfection. There weren’t really any QOL updates added or promised. If anything they got taken away by subsuming the license in that game and preventing you from making smurf accounts.
If they add auto gold pick up, what will summoners do while their skelly’s kill everything?
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I should have asked myself this as someone who has played a summon necro. What will i do now?
put 3 points in curses. lol
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