We donât need major buffs, we need COMPLETELY BROKENLY OP BUFFS \o/
Sad but true sorta yaâknow! 
Look at WD, they were in a deplorable state, no meta group whatsoever, few builds very difficult and squishy to play (DoD variants and Jade) then boom, kings of the hill for solo and META.
We want their cake and eat it too! 
I do not want completely broken buffs for any class. I expect a new set for both DH and necromancers. I hope for updates to pre-existing set bonuses next patch for DH/Necros but I think that it is highly unlikely.
We do not have a dedicated Diablo community manager, since Nevalistis left. Nevalistis to my surprise had posted her public facing Blizzard e-mail on the forum on several occasions. I assume she had an internal e-mail too that was kept private. Also, there have been other notable changes in forum engagement that have been observed.
Every time a class (or 2) is OP, the other classes are weak in comparison. DH and necros need to be buffed appropriately.
| Class | New Set | Updated Set | Updated Items | Top Solo GR Clear Worldwide | Rank #50 GR Clear |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Witch Doctor | 2.6.8 | 6 | 150 | 145 | |
| Crusader | 2.6.7 | 3 | 150 | 144 | |
| Barbarian | 2.6.8* | 2.6.7 | 9 | 147 | 140 |
| Monk | 2.6.7 | 2 | 144 | 136 | |
| Wizard | 2.6.8* | 3 | 143 | 133 | |
| Demon Hunter | Next? | 2 | 141 | 130 | |
| Necromancer | Next? | 2.6.5 | 2 | 139 | 127 |
The table above is for the last 4 patches (2.6.5-2.6.8), I think it would be nice to target the middle of the 5 classes who have received their new sets.* In the next patch, I imagine that DHs and Necromancers will both get 2-3 updated items to support the new set.
'* Two new sets are much weaker than the top build for their respective classes.
For barbarians, ww/rend works functionally because the developers chose to do 2 key things: 1) buff rend damage AND 2) have whirlwind auto-apply rend via Ambo. This build highlights that Blizzard will make their own decisions based on their ideas of good game design. The ability to auto-apply rend was intentionally and specifically excluded in the barbarian buff proposal.
Itâs more â'tis better to keep quiet than be thought a foolâ. Real-time discussions are one of the things that trip up most people (like me) and/or raise their anxiety levels to extreme levels (also me). Text communication lets people flesh out what they want to say in a much more natural way. Anyone thatâs read many of my posts knows Iâm very good at articulating in text. Sadly, not so much verbally. That and I have no webcam and donât really feel like fishing out my Logitech USB mic from my closet. Itâs buried behind seven bins of DVDs and Blu-Rays. 
Cue the 720° arcade voice: âVAULT OR DIE.â
If I find him, Iâm keeping him. Meowversations are my thing. 
I really donât get why the barbarian trolls have to come to the DH proposal to derail the topic, i really donât get why you always come with the attitude of âahaha i was so great they listened my proposal i did things better than you DH playersâ No one cares about your ego , you already bashed once DH community just for fun months ago and you are here again doing the same. sigh.
I really like most of the ideas of this proposal, i hope they fix dh this patch.
Hey Salamandra-
I agree with the last sentence of your post, there are some really good ideas here. I hope that whoever is left working on this patch hears the feedback that one build drastically outshining all others is not the way to go.
I like to browse the leaderboards and see variety, and hope that DH maintains that.
As for the rest of your post, I urge you not to get dragged down that path. It will only serve to take away from the constructive discussion.
I think that it one of the key things that I would advocate for. I prefer not to be in a situation where the top set is 10+ GRs above the second best. In that situation, the good news is that the class would have one strong build. The bad news is self-evident.
You know, as far as the sentries are concerned, I think an item or passive that gives us a single sentry that counts as the max number of sentries allowed would solve a lot of problems with this skill. Although it does create the âproblemâ of having only one sentry.
The only problem with the OPâs post that I have is that I canât like a 2nd time⌠Lets keep this rollin folks. Demon Hunter be aâcomin!!! Blizzard, listen to us!! We the People!
Edit: asdf⌠
I can understand this desire on paper, but the game simply never got the attention it needed to truly make this a reality. Some of my sticking points in trying to point out the DH wasnât in a good place way back in the day and being told they theyâre actually in a good spot was frequently supplemented with a mix of âgit gudâ rhetoric or people admitting they used things like macros for instantaneous gearswaps to exploit snapshotting and the like, or were THUDers to boot. Playing as and with other classes, there was just this feeling we had to work twice as hard just to get half the benefit, which translated to people not even wanting to try or getting burnt out more easily.
For me, itâs this mix of complacency and kids gloves approach to getting buffs that has gotten us where we are now. I know when I push ideas, itâs often done in OP manner just to get people to stop and think. If their only complaint is that numbers are too high, it at least infers there is something about the premise they liked. However, thereâs also a point where hyper-obsessing over numbers in the pitch phase is just a lost cause. Whatâs truly the most important is establishing the concept. The math can follow such things easily enough.
For some, the DH is supposed to be the glass cannon ranged character. Game mechanics do not support that, period, yet weâre still shackled to some old systems where that was pushed and emphasized in the same âback in the dayâ critiques I received. Itâs why Iâve long been a proponent of scrapping the global melee class DR and just cutting mob damage universally, as it is a foundation issue for the DH. I remember DHs never getting invited to Crypt runs unless they prepped. I remember exploding when anything so much sneezed at us when T6 was the cap. I remember when our only hope of surviving was praying a combination of RF and leeching could sustain us. Unavoidable damage happened, and that just made it that much more obvious Dex>Dodge was insufficient. We had the Smokescreen/Prep loop for a nigh invulnerability, but we all knew that deserved its eventual nerf bat. So, while the game may have changed relative to this various issues since, they certainly seem to have manifested again within the GR system.
We canât deal damage if weâre dead is the obvious no-brainer sentiment. Yet, tickling a mob because we had to take survival stats isnât getting us invited to the dance, either. So enters the conundrum where if glass cannon IS bad, but average stats are also insufficient, does this actually mean weâre poorly balanced all around? I say yes, and again, have been doing so for years. Solving that damage problem then goes on to addressing things like skill design, hatred regen/costs, damage output, related sets/legendaries (or lack thereof), the shackles of Dawn/Vengeance, contemplating if our weapons really should be 30% weaker despite quivers, proc coefficients, and so on. Itâs further possible that the balance we actually need would be perceived as OP precisely because weâve been letting this broken system determine the rules, constantly playing catch up just hoping to be on par instead of the other way around with other classes. The days of M6v1 were also overexaggerrated in their efficacy, but this would also be the time weâd be most regarded as kings. Suppose I find that unfortunate, but fans of every class tend to have their own victim complexes and utilize perceived strengths as a reason to discriminate.
Still, itâs time to be OP. Letâs finally settle on that GR150 difficulty cap and begin the groundwork of making that the goal for everyone. Some class is going to be first here on broad scale build eventually. All Iâm saying is to not string the process along another 2-3 years. Start it now. Do what weâve needed done since launch. Donât settle for just a few % here and there. Donât throw your hands up and say itâs not even worth trying because maintenance mode. If Blizz wants to lock the game into online only, they need to take responsibility for that choice. I know Iâm sick of feeling third-rate with my favored class, and I donât want any of this collective sentiment to be wasted if it all it does is give us 3 months where weâre average because the next cycle pushes the next 2 lucky classes into âOPâ territory.
Bluntly, this secretive approach to class buffs theyâve run has been abhorrent. Itâs hard to say we have input when we just get a PTR dropped on us and really just hope find something that doesnât make the servers explode over the week or two itâs up. This falls under that umbrella of responsibility I mentioned above. We just get what weâre given and are supposed to like it, no matter how out of touch or insignificant it may be. Every class needs a dedicated dev talking to their respective communities constantly, finding what works, what doesnât, and fishing for ways to fix that. But again, this is also something Iâve been saying for years, so maybe Iâm the fool for hoping one day it could happen.
I have a different take in that solo GR power recently is independent variable of player feedback. You can look at the GR leaderboards. Five classes have received new sets. The least âkids glove approachâ was barbarians who fall in the middle.* Crusaders and witch doctors are stronger than barbs. Monks and wizards are weaker. There is no correlation between top GR tier and how vocal any class was.
It is my opinion that best idea as stated by others is to ask for a few buffs/simple number changes to key sets. I will reiterate that forum engagement seems different now than 6 months ago. We will see how the next PTR is handled in the post-Nevalistis era.
Great post!
I really hope it gets the proper attention!
I just want a new set for DH, almost all the classes got a new set, last set we got was Shadowâs Coil, and that was a while ago, think weâre about due for something new that alters dh gameplay, maybe even something that might make us semi meta for 4p GRs
There is a new DH set coming next season. 100% sure about that. Question is only what mechanics it introduces. Wudijo has shared some nice set concepts.
I really liked his idea around Hungering Arrow set.
Tbh i donât think the new DH set will be good. most of new sets are terrible.
My hopes are in buffs to the old playstyles, like m6 and maybe a kridershot buff to make elemental arrow great again.
Late to the party, and way too many posts to read to catch up for me personally, so sorry if this has already been mentioned. I donât foresee Blizz buffing any individual items (e.g., your proposal to amend Augustineâs Panacea and Lord Greenstoneâs Fan) into the thousands. This will become too powerful in the early game (leveling to 70). For most of us, the endgame is what it is all about. However, Blizz still has to be concerned with the entire player base. It is probably more likely to be implemented if you incorporate another item to multiplicatively get to those numbers. Combos of items providing power is one thing (e.g., sets). Individual items is another.
Great job - hoping to see many of these changes implemented!
Great job OP. While we know the communityâs ideas will never match the reality of what we will actually get thereâs always the hope that a few might trickle into what is actually implemented.
Hello Dante,
Thanks for your feedback. When a spender skill is so weak to begin with, just like a basic generator, ie. Elemental Arrow (300%), there is very little choice but to buff the existing legendaries to higher amounts. This isnât very different from say⌠Blade of Prophecy (800%) and Frydehrâs Wrath (800%), which incidentally, both multiplicatively buff Condemn, a skill with 1160% weapon damage.
Not taking sets into account thatâs:
Taking sets into account, Elemental Arrow would be a bit stronger, but it is not a giant AoE like Condemn. We donât want to make Elemental Arrow require a third level 70 legendary item, there are not enough gear slots to accommodate it.
I get what youâre saying about rolling Augustine and Kridershot early in the season, but this same thing essentially happens anyways with level reduction weapons, and other OP skills & items belonging to other classes. DH is not at an advantage for the first 2 hours of going 1-70.
Maybe these low level item reservations are holding back the game?
For UE what about something that helps eliminate a passive?
TotH is pretty much mandatory for UE to provide the slow to proc CTW right?
So why not
Option A
UE 2pc) Multishot gains the WindChill Rune and your generators generate 2 additional Hatred and 1 Discipline.
Or hellâŚshoot for the moon
Option B
UE 2) Multishot gains every rune and your generators generate 2 additional Hatred and 1 Discipline.
Option A Takes TotH out of the mandatory slot for UE (but still useful in other builds) and allows slotting of a full DPS passive or even AwarenessâŚ
CTW
Ballistics
Steady Aim
Ambush/Single Out/Awareness
Option B gives the lower hatred cost from Fire at Will, the chill from Wind Chill, the knockback from Suppression Fire (helpful when those freaking leapers jump next to ya), the damage boost from FB and the rockets from Arsenal.
Or throw it on the 6pc like with Wastes?
That would be mostly awesome⌠and honestly not that overpowered. Being forced to have Suppression Fire would suck though. Good for certain enemies, but would end up being pretty bad for grouping/AD overall. Probably not good to be forced to have it.
This is probably the better option. Then you still have to decide between Physical and Fire, so thereâs still some choice in the build. But itâs probably better this way than with all runes, just so we can avoid being forced to have Suppression Fire.