D4's itemization

I know this is a subject that has been talked about a lot. I will now give an updated point of view as to my thoughts on how D4’s itemization should be and it might be a little long winded so hear me out.

Now I don’t have any special skills to give you pictures so I will use words to convey the message as best as I can do.

After much thought about the subject I have come to the conclusion that there is just too much random in itemization in D3 and I don’t want that for D4. I know that Diablo is a game about randomization. But not about randomization as the only means to keep people playing as D3 is doing and it looks like D4 will do the same.

D4 like D3 will be treating legendaries, sets, and rune words like rares. All just to keep players playing isn’t a good idea. More so if you will truly have a ton of viable builds that can clear the highest difficulty of endgame content. If you have one build that has dozens of variations that change how the build is played then you don’t need to threat all items as glorified rares and magic items.

Rune words: I like the idea of trigger rune words that can be inserted into magic an rares to get their trigger affect. But I think that Blizz need to make socketable white items. Then you can put the same trigger rune words that would create a definite rune word that would be similar to D2’s rune words in color of name and border if you want.

This triggered rune words in white items will give you fixed affixes along with the triggered affect.

Other rune words in white items based on the progression system can do a whole lot more than just triggered affects. The sky could very well be the limit here.

Sets: Again I feel that these in D4 currently will be treated like a glorified rare. That shouldn’t be the case. They should be about giving you something that rune words don’t give you and things that even other non set legendaries give you. Their set bonuses could be similar to what you see in D2 as a guide to inspire you to make your own set bonuses that isn’t about combat power but will give you something that doesn’t come on other pieces of gear.

An idea that would hopefully inspire Blizz and maybe the readers is that I will use the boots from the Waste set to give you an idea. Based off of the text alone I would state the following as special affixes on those boots that normally don’t come on other pieces.

  • Increased cold resistance by 25%
  • Cold skills penetrate 15% monster resistance. Here I am not wanting immunities just high resistances for the monsters.
  • Cold skills chill the monsters reducing their move and attack speed by 30%.

Let’s say that you want to make a class set for the sorceress for cold spells. Well the set could have a few pieces that gives her the ability to change physical damage to cold damage. Then the full set (not necessarily six pieces) could give her up to 50% physical damage as cold damage, along with a boost to cold resistance of up to 50% (all made up numbers of course).

Now here is the trade off with such a set you have to find other pieces that will make up for the loss in resistances of other damage types. Along with possibly skills and talents that could help make up for the loss.

Legendaries: Seems like they atm will be glorified rares again when they should have fixed affixes along with their legendary powers. It won’t hurt a bit to have them with fixed affixes. Some of the fixed affixes can be things that you normally don’t find on that piece of gear. Think The Witching Hours attack speed and crit damage here.

Mythic: If they still exist will be just a glorified rare with four legendary powers, which shouldn’t happen. They too should have other things that don’t normally come on other pieces of gear that are fixed on each piece.

Crafted gear: Here think something along the lines of D2’s Blood items. Where they have one to three set affixes and the rest are random. Again these should be about giving the player something that normally doesn’t come on other items.

Ultra rare magic and rare items: Here you would have hard to find magic and rare items that would be like D2 that would have properties that normally don’t come on those items that could be useful for a selected group of builds.

Hopefully I have given you the reader enough info to see where I am going with this. I want D4’s itemization to be about getting excited when that beam of light appears knowing that what you find will be useful, instead of another rock for Charlie Brown’s Halloween bag.

When the Mythic beams shows up, if they still exist, I want to be super hyped knowing that I have found something special instead of another rock like above.

Itemization should be about each tier having something special that it gives to the player. Let the player figure out what they want to use for their builds. Let them determine the true usefulness based on their build and how they want their build to play.

Do they want a strong cold resist sorceress that is tanky to physical damage go get that special set as I mentioned before and then put on the right items, skills, talents, etc… and you are good to go.

The idea of funneling players to where they are all wearing the same rares with legendary properties along with probably a few Mythic items if they exist isn’t a good idea. You are still thinking WoW itemization here and we need you to be thinking like D2, PoE, Grim Dawn, maybe even some last Epoch as well.

I know turn the floor to you the readers I want to hear your thoughts, suggestions. I will try to refrain from making too many comments here because I want D4’s itemization to be the best it can be drawing inspiration not only from Diablo games but other games as well. I hope that in the end D4’s itemization is something that will get me excited every time a beam of light appears, if they have them. Instead of thinking it is just another rock to avoid.

I do believe that if Itemization is done like I am saying then you won’t have that many problems. You will see all kinds of builds and gear setups that will give other players ideas for their own builds and gear setups.

4 Likes

Pretty much, what Mr. Llama said.
Runewords could have something special on their own, other than just being uniques + trigger effects
Like already mentioned, just a very special effect, fitting to the trigger effects and no affixes

I think that I will go back and watch those videos again, because what I got out of them he loves D2 so much he was wanting the to copy and paste D2’s itemization system. I want D4’s itemization to stand on its own merits instead of being a copy and paste of D2. Yes the devs can use D2 and other games to inspire them to make D4’s itemization great. But at the end of the day D4’s itemization shouldn’t be a copy/paste of D2’s itemization.

1 Like

Yes please, make it new not a rehash of D2. If I want to play D2 I still have the CDs.

well, he does not
he just covers all the good aspects of D2s itemization, which is a lot :smiley:
but he always also covers the cons
he is not biased although he might seem so

my personal opinion about that is

runewords: Runewords are very possible within the new system

legendaries, rares and magics: [D4 Itemization] the more, the merrier? not always

1 Like

I look at it this way, no matter what, you will have sheep. Sheep that will flock to their favorite site to find the “best Meteor” Sorcerer build and copy it. I’ll go so far as to say half of the players may do this. Why? Because it’s easy and they don’t have to think about anything, just show me what to get.

Is this Blizzard’s fault? No. What is Blizzard’s fault is making a game where most, 90%+, of a characters power comes from gear, and the set gear provided so much bonus power in set bonuses, that there were only a few “viable” builds per class.

What are they doing different in D4? For starters, player powere is split 50/50 between skills and gear. Just that alone will make a wider range of gear more useful and a wider range of builds more useful.

With sets, they will no longer be the main target of gear for endgame. As of now, they want them to be starter endgame gear. Geared more towards new players to the game/genre and to those that like the be guided, or have their hands held as some would say.

The main draw is legendaries. Supposedly there are hundreds to find. Each one modding a class skill. So let’s say there is a legendary weapon, chest piece, belt, legs, boots, gloves, 2 rings, and a neck piece all with Meteor modifiers. One could run an uber Meteor build. But somone may want to run only 3 if those legendaries and use 3 for teleport, and 3 for frostbolt. Or maybe a 3 aet bonus and 6 legendaries, 1 for each skill used.

The possibilities seem endless, provided there are tons of these legendaries. Even if there are far less than what I am imagining, we are looking at something way more diverse, and way easier to balance out than the mess in D3 with sets.

I think there will be people that flock to a handful of builds regardless of what Blizzard does. I just think we will be in for a nice surprise going forward.

It wont happen people have been asking for this for years now.

Shads I think a major, its the internet so everything has to be extreme, breakthrough 2020 is in order.

two catergories
1 - Those who want a copy paste of D2 via D4, instead of a D2 remake. This is probably like < 0.1 of a %.

2 - Those who want D4 to study, value, deeper than the surface study, D2. Deeper than the surface, really do their best to analyze it. Then with that knowledge, talk about it with respect to D4. This is like everyone, or hopefully.

So the point is politely, saying people want a copy of D2 IS true, for a remake. Saying people want a copy of D2, AS D4, obviously isn’t even possible it would be exactly the same game, so thus a remake.

The point is almost everyone is worried, keyword.
Worried.
Worried devs aren’t studying D2 beneath the surface, talking about D2, what worked what didn’t, why, what each aspect appeals to, such as artwork or you know…voice acting quality… I mean theres so much to go over.

So be on point with categorizing.
people who want to make sure, because they are worried, d4’s devs didn’t study D2 enough to understand what is important.

Or people who want an exact copy of D2 in D4, which is tech impossible bc it would be a remake and not D4.

See how its worrysome? To not know how well the devs know D2, what the deeper things accident or intentional, did correct? Like we are at a massive, again its the internet extreme is key, but we really are at a major disconnect trying to mold D4 the right way, the d2 way, the d1 way, and yet we don’t work at blizzard all we can do is post to these forums.

its so sad shadow.
but such is life, hopefully all of us can get into blizzard and make future diablo games with the core concepts, tradeoffs and updates where needed, obviously not many are needed since d2’s formula is still super fun to this day.

Like D2 did many of the ‘big things’ correct.
one of those is art style.
one thing d4 has already strayed wayyyy too far (grey, its all grey, its all dull, no contrast, doesn’t look medieval at all, nothing like d2’s style, so this is a big worry that’s why everyone is super eye raised because they already took D4’s art wayyyyy too grey/dull compared to the colors and medieval D2 had.

You can see the major difference in D2 and D4’s artwork, and its not good.
One has color, and like torches and such, one is grey and dull and dust storm in your eyes.

You can see the major difference in D2 and D4’s artwork, and its not good.

D2 is lika a cartoon in comparison with D4 art style. Before trying to object go google d2 and d4 screenshots and compare them on 1 screen.

For 1, I don’t want them spending too much time on D2. Surface level acknowledgement and incorporation of what was good, in D1-3 then make D4 it’s own thing.

In terms of looks, I preferred 1 to 2, 3 to 2, and 4 to them all. Art direction is one thing but graphically, 3 blows 2 out of the water in all aspects, and 4 blows 3 away just as equally.

1 Like

I would like it if the devs of D4 can study more than just D2’s itemization gearing for inspiration. Path of Exile has some really good affixes that can convert physical damage to other damage types like fire. Just think of it if you could have a sorceress that normally would be weak to physical damage but could convert maybe up to around 50% of that damage to fire then stack fire resistance to where it is well over the cap. Now that would act like a 50% damage reduction to physical damage. Sure it would mean that you would have to get the other resistances to damage types up as well using other pieces of gear to accomplish it.

Yea, they would need to somehow refrain from doing so.

It would be truly cool if at least ~40% of power would come from attributes, skills, talents and whatever else. Gear is important but your “CORE” is very important too. CORE should be an enabler of sorts and gear should take you further, make you faster and more efficient.

This is exactly the problem with D3. THERE IS NO CORE ! There is only gear.

Hopefully, D4 will do it different.

1 Like

They already said it would be a 50/50 split between skills and gear, add to that only attack power comes from weapons.

@Beefhammer: Sure the way the current iteration is no doubt different than D3, but not by much in my book. They still want to use the MMO model of gear progression along with possibly treating all gear beyond normal rares as glorified rares. When I want those items to have fixed affixes. They have the opportunity to do just that. If a legendary with the right legendary power doesn’t have the affixes out of the fix affixes that you need for your build then just find the legendary power and put it on a rare item that does problem solved.

I want to be able to say that each character looks different because each character is actually looking for different pieces of gear instead of just supporting a different look due to transmog features. Transmoging should only be used to perfect the look instead of making it.

I will explain as best as I can using what I know about both D2 and Path of Exile. I will start with talking about WW barb spec.

  1. A WW barb that wants to be a tanky spec. I would like to see one option be using crafted gear that would be similar to D2’s safety gear along with some legendaries and maybe a few rune words.
  2. This option would be one that instead of having damage reduction come from high defenses it would come from having a high life, regen, and life on hit. Now the gear that would be needed would be rune words, legendaries and a few hard to find rares similar to what D2 did with their hard to find rares and magic items.

I don’t want my different looks to be just because I used transmogs to make it different. Where the only true difference between my gear and the next barb is just affixes. I want more than that and so do a lot of other players.

Doing it the MMO way of linear progression is fine for those type of games where it is expected. Where you definitely have item levels and other things. But not an arpg.

Path of Exile has chest armor called Crystal Vault has the following affixes.

20% of physical damage from hits taken as cold damage.
30% of fire damage from hits taken as cold damage.

Here it looks like you are taking extra damage when you are actually converting some of the damage take from both fire and physical to cold. Now all you have to do is to increase your cold resistances in order to have the affect of having a 20% physical damage reduction and a 30% fire damage reduction.

Gear like that along with other pieces that could have an almost endless variety of ways to gear our characters in D4. That would be fun in the extreme for me if they were to do such things.

Even though they are going what to them is the easiest to do and a bit lazy at the same time.

These devs are passionate and I want them to do more than just keep that passion. I want that passion to grow where they are willing to try some crazy stuff that is outside of the box of linear gear progression. Where each tier beyond normal rare will give your character something no other tier will give as far as customizing your build goes. That is what it should be all about in D4.

Each build chasing after different items to get that desired affect. Maybe they can have something similar to gear like Shako or Alpha Howl from D2. That way they can see all of the crazy builds that we make based off of some of those items.

I could care less about looks. But what I understand from the 50/50 split is a WW Barb for example that has a maxed out WW skill at 20(for arguments sake) and entry level max gear, should be out damage or be on par with a WW Barb with say 8 points in WW and a full range of Legendaries that modify WW.

It isn’t going to be only about the gear was my point. How you choose to build your character will have just as much importance.

@Beefhammer: The problem that I am talking about is that if I inspect your gear and the only difference is affixes. Where we are both looking for the same type of gear then what is the difference from looking for sets or looking for special rares. The end result is the same. You are funneled into one type and only one type of gear. That is the point and looks are also part of it when you are talking about other players than yourself.

I am talking about going away from a linear gear progression. I am talking about a gear progression that would mean that when you get to end game you use whatever is useful for you till you get the gear that you really want.

Where in some cases it will be a mix of rune words and legendaries. Other cases it might be sets that have the right affixes and bonuses that are not like D3 sets. Other times it might be crafted gear that would get the call.

Having gear setups like the above would increase depth in itemization. This is how they can make itemization deeper. Linear cannot add that much depth. More so when your legendaries have random affixes which makes them glorified rares with legendary powers.

I am wanting each tier of gear beyond normal rare to be useful in endgame. Instead of just chasing after the special rares that they talked about in the blogs.

You can still have it the way that I and others like me would want it to be. And still sets wouldn’t dominate the scene. No, instead they would still pla a role in certain builds just like legendaries, rune words, special rares, etc… would also play their part.

Finally I know it isn’t all about gear. I am just trying to help the devs of D4 with my input on what I think will help D4’s itemization system. Itemization in a game like Diablo is important and I want them to get it right the first time. Instead of being like Jay and company that got it all wrong out of the gate.

1 Like

It will be very interesting to see how the ADA powers associated with gear progresses in development should they decide to stick with it.

The first quarterly blog can’t come soon enough. It will hopefully give us some things to discuss.