[D4] Evade skill - animation stop frame

General Discussion
21

Yeah. I would be quite fine with not having a default active dodge for all classes in D4 too. It really just takes away from build choices.
Only talking in the context of D4 having an active dodge button.

At minimum, what Blizzard could do, would be to give the active dodge its own section in the skill tree. To make it more of a build choice. Making it more useful would come at the cost of having less points to spend on your other skills. Just like if you pick teleport etc.
And those skill upgrades to the dodge could then also be somewhat more tailored to each class.

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22

it just waters down class identity
i mean sure…they can all run and talk^^
but dodging is something more critical to the actual combat and giving every single class the same way of dealing with incoming attacks is a bit lame

23

As long as you can only use it rarely, it hopefully wont make all builds feel similar. Like you might use it to escape <1/10 attacks or whatever. Having a 10+ sec regen might be fine. Something you only use as a last resort. Unless you spec into it to get more dodges, as an alternative to getting another mobility skill.

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24

thats again a PoE all classes do the same system even if you specc into it
i dont remember a diablo game where classes can specc into the same skill
everyone has their own skilltree

25

Well, Diablo 1 :stuck_out_tongue:

Having skill upgrades for the dodge could make it feel different for each class though. Like, everyone start out with a short-range, slow regen and not very fast dodge.
A sorceress might spend points into making it work more like a short-range teleport/blink. While barb might make it into a kind of dmging charge, rogue into a backflip, a druid turns into a raven form that ignores ground dmg (but not dmg above ground) for a second, etc.
So all have a basic dodge, just like all classes are able to run as you mentioned. But when they start specializing their dodge, they rely on the class fantasy.

Not that I would expect Blizzard to do this :confused:

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26

If the Dodge Ability is something like an Innate Skill, then I would say that improving it could also come via Passive Skills. The Passive Skill Tree does not have to be a skill tree, but also Passive Skill List, and some Passive Skills can be universally available to each class.

If every class had its own unique Evade Ability, then it also would be cool imo.

27

well
to me a knight with a shield doesnt evade
they block damage
just for example
you dont have to try to make sense of it
its just not a very good idea

28

And drink potions KEKW.

Who’s the faster dodger - Rogue or Druid?

Spoiler

Tyson Fury

29

That I disagree with. Even a tank wants to avoid some hits. Not only to avoid dmg, but it might be a CC ability etc.

Another thing most classes have shared in past Diablos is a default ‘attack’. That should also return to D4, even if it might not be something most builds would ever use.

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30

it should be but it seems unlikely
they have shifted to free “skills” that are just a bit more fancy basic attacks so the 9 year olds wont complain about “doing nothing” while out of resources

it doesnt make much sense for anything but the druid because it will help you to stay in your preferred form forever basically

31

I dont mind having all those free skills. But they do come at the cost of skill points. So a default attack could still have a small niche.

32

well
depending on how much you are using them because you (hopefully) cant spam your powerful attacks, it might be clever to have a skill in your bar that you can spam and even uprade in your skilltree if it takes 50% of more of your hit time

33

it fits their theme of a heavily armored knight.

When you dodge / evade out of an incoming AoE explosion or heavy hit, you take 0 damage, and a heavily armored knight who raises his shield in front of him and summons a holy bubble that absorbs all incoming damage, he also takes 0 damage.

It doesn’t has to be called Evade for the knight class, but it fulfills the same purpose, as even these Evade Abilities are not Movement Abilities for you to use to get closer to an enemy or to travel large distances, but rather to get out of a dangerous zone.

34

yea so its just part of the general skillset that a character should have and it makes no sense to give them their own resource or button next to the skillbar
you are trying to make sense of it while its just not needed

35

I would reduce the need for choosing a Movement Skill like Teleport, Leap, Furious Charge, Vault etc (without making them redundant) and that is the purpose of these Evade Abilities.

36

i dont get the point
skills are supposed to be needed
thats why they are there
at the same time you are making the “evade skill” a default button for every class
doesnt sound like a lot of build diversity

37

I think Evade skill is important, I love Stagger mechanic they have made!
A little more complex to this feature would be nice.

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38

They haven’t though, it’s just a discussion we’re doing on the forums. Devs are only using Stagger for bosses and that’s it. They’re also using a “break weapon” or “disable X attack” mechanic but only vs world bosses like Ashava (but I’d personally prefer they consider using it for some types of more regular mobs as well, for example the drowned with big logs, when the log is on the ground being able to break it :slight_smile: )

As for the topic itself, as mentioned before my starting point comes from the following issue: D3 had one problematic massive discrepancy of Ranged and Melee classes being sunrise and midnight in terms of survivabilit… Nothing “shared” i.e. nothing common for both, and a complete 100% total opposite of what the classes are doing based on whether they’re ranged or melee

I guess it’s a deliberate design to make the “impression” differ as much as possible but ended up bad cause literally pigeonholes the classes into a certain type of gameplay with no alternatives possible

So, how did the melee vs ranged classes work in D3 ?

1 - Melee = endless sustain but die to interruptions
2 - Ranged = endless damage but die to being surrounded

So how did that problem get dealt with when in trouble ?

1 - Get EVEN MORE sustain lol
2 - EVEN MORE damage so that almost nothing touches you yet alone worrying about getting surrounded :stuck_out_tongue:

So THAT is bad, and some might wonder what’s the connection with the topic :thinking: ?, well easy:

IF you make the Dodge as a mobility spell by default then Melee classes will have the advantage and better usage, means they can stick to a target and deal more damage longer until a very last moment and deal damage… Ranged on the other hand won’t get much usage cause they are in a maneouver anyway so chances that an extra dodge does something that another skill they could use are relatively slim

THAT’s why I’d suggest 2 types of “free spells”

1 - Dodge/Roll
2 - Kick/Roundhouse

That would give greater diversity to gameplay but also not force players use dodge if they already have mobility

Now whether or not it’s feasible/possible not sure but I’d imagine that Ranged classes would benefit more from a Roundhouse/Knockback type of ability rather than YET ANOTHER dodge/roll

HOWEVER, D4 seems to have changed this quite a bit, it’s the ranged classes (Sorc/Human-druid) that doesn’t seem to have the mobility, and it’s the MELEE ones that have a sh*t-ton (Barb for ex. has 3 moblity abilities lol: Leap, Leap-attack, Charge)

OVERALL:

Would prefer all classes have every type of ability just different in power or frequency (for example give the Barb a Spine-launch i.e. bone-spear-like ability where s/he takes a corpse from the ground, gets the spine and launches a piercing high-damage attack with some small chance of Fear as cc for ex., or ShieldWall ability where the goal is to prevent incoming masses of projectiles temporarily, think that’s kinda better in a way than give him, again, 3 mobility abilities and dodge being 4th :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: )

On the other hand Sorc should have a few more melee-like abilities (for ex. Levitation from up close or a coil that jumps lightning sparks between the player and the coil and the closer the both the higher the frequency i.e. damage)

Regardless, you get the idea, classes should be versatile (along with the “neutral” abilities like the dodgeroll) and differ on the THEME and type of damage/encounter, NOT based upon literal categories (Barb should also have some rudimentary but still useful ranged ability, even if it’s to throw a rock to make an unpassable dent on the ground, and so should the Sorc have some rudimentary but still possible to pull off melee-ranged skills)

And having that in mind, there should be more than one “neutral” ability to choose from (probably 3 should suffice IMO, dodge/roll, kick/roundhouse, and maybe some sort of short lasting shield timed effective vs projectiles but not vs AoE/DoT or melee maybe…)

39

Yeah, classes should be unique, offering different ways to play. But not limiting. Give me ranged barbs, melee sorcs etc. Just make them feel different to play from a melee druid or ranged rogue.

Pigeonholing classes into specific playstyles is no better than D3 sets, or the whole “DotA” class system.

40

well, the sorc can teleport
and if you dont put that behind a stupid 30 seconds cooldown wall its a great tool to avoid unpleasant situations