D3 Paragon has the best character progression in Diablo game

General Discussion
1

Yet people hate it because hating anything to D3 is cool.

I mean, just take D2 character progression as an example. It has STR, DEX, VIT and Energy stat for your character progression. So if you have Lv99 D2 character without items will have:

  • higher weapon damage
  • can wear better equipment
  • has more HP
  • has a higher block chance
  • more stamina
  • more mana

compare to Lv1 character

Meanwhile, in D3, Lv800 paragon character without items will have:

  • more base damage
  • more HP
  • more mana/resource cap
  • more armor
  • more resistance

Pretty standard progression right, however, the paragon power doesn’t stop at there. It also offers something that your character has no way to improve it without items.

  • Higher critical chance
  • Higher critical damage
  • Life regen
  • Life Leeching
  • Movement Speed
  • Cooldown reduction
  • Cost Reduction
  • Attack Speed
  • Gold Find
  • Area Damage

An Lv70 character with Lv0 paragon can’t compete at all.

So, it doesn’t make sense people want D2 character progression for D4 when D3 character progression offers more benefits and power when your character grew stronger.

I am not saying that D4 should have a paragon system but I think D3 paragon character progression be used as a reference for D4 character progression instead of the standard leveling that only grants basic character stat and skill points as D2 did. Even D3 pre-level character stat gain per level is pathetic compared to Paragon progression.

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Your comparison completely ignores the single biggest flaw of the Paragon system: all characters are identical at Paragon 800 because everyone maxes out all of the “extra Stats” you’re mentioning, which have pre-determined caps. The infinite “core” points unlock only after p800 and then only allow you to choose between Main Stat and Vit. Snore.

Beyond 800 it is just an infinite +5 main stat grind which eventually makes rolls on gear almost irrelevant and the game changes from a loot hunt into an infinite +5 main stat Korean RPG number clicker.

Your comparison is extremely misleading and biased. D3’s Paragon system, gear systems, and character progression systems suck. That’s why in short order everyone has the same items with the same 4 primary stat rolls and the only difference between Player A and Player B is how much Paragon they farm.

Power in D3 is 50% Paragon and 50% gear rolls, 0% player choice. Eventually when you get into para7000+ it mutates into 80% Paragon and 20% item rolls because thousands of paragon eventually outweigh even low-end gear rolls. It gets worse the higher you go.

Diablo 2 is 50% gear, 50% player choice, 0% infinite mainstat grinding and it stays that way.

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Hahhah you got me on your clickbait man. Congrats!

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What is this?
confused cat meme

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Paragon is a bad system because

  1. You can max everything - even quite fast. Where is the meaningful choice?
  2. Endless scaling - pushes the game balance completely out of whack.

The stats you can pick between in the Paragon system are fine, in theory. Not very balanced though (Area dmg vs Gold find?!?).
But literally everything else about the system is not fine.

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Botters from all over are standing up to agree.

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D3 without his Paragonsystem would be boring in the endgame. Paragon gives you some little reward for your time. It is not perfect, but better than nothing. Maybe they will find a better System for D4. Just searching for better items is not enough and give you no reward.

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9

I have to side with you on this one.
Im sure they could have gone about it differently and make it better but i have no idea how.
For players who still obsessively play d3 and make no mistake theres plenty of us, it does offer some reward.
You could have no upgrade to your gear in months but at least you know that you got something out of your time contribution apart from obviously fun of playing with your friends.

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That flaw could be easily corrected by quadrupling the bonus caps for each stat. Then we wouldn’t have to invest into main stat until reaching about paragon 3.2k, which i don’t think many people reach in a season, or even in non-season.
If the bonus stats like +20% critical chance were deemed too strong, simply half the bonus gained with each point invested. Then we would have a much longer-term, more meaningful post-70 power progression.
I have thought for a long time that maxing the stats (except main stat) at p800 is achieved too quickly and easily, considering all these power buffs we’ve had from patches since paragon was implemented.

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I said nothing about infinite progression. There is a good reason why I am using Lv800 paragon as example not paragon 5000. I am simply saying that D3 paragon actually offered more bonus perk (movement speed, CDR, Gold Find and etc) to your character when they grew stronger instead of simple more HP, more damage and more mana every time your character level up.

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You mean 4 times everything 20chc 200chd 100ms 40 ias and 200ad?
That would be interesting and would definitely drown out main stat inflated damege, not sure if in a good way:)
But the problem most ppl complain would remain the same.

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Personally I’d like to see a combination of both systems:

The paragon system would be built into the standard leveling system. Just like in Diablo 2, you’d get 5 points. You would choose to put those into STR, DEX, INT, VIT or the paragon system of other stats. They could even add other options into this as well: increased block, magic find, specific elemental resists, casting speed. All kinds of things.

That would give more choices: as a Barbarian, would you increase STR for better melee damage, or jack up that crit chance and crit damage for bigger damage spikes? Would you boost your weak Cold resists, or would you try to increase you movement speed to help avoid those attacks?

Things are still too early to tell where they’ll go, but I’d love to see more options being made available for players to create the build they want that is not based solely on items. Let us influence our builds via the leveling system as well beyond just talent and skill points.

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So many threads end up this way the past few weeks…Can we not all just get along? I shall start:
:musical_note:kumbaya my lord…kumbaya…:musical_note:

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I dont want this thread to end peacefully, its a bad thread :v

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Plz, don’t feed the trols! :wink:

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please, dont feed this thread :v

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The way it is, I reckon paragon should be capped at 5000. Every endgame content is pretty much more than doable at this level.

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If it is a sarcasm, it’s a really good joke :smiley: Progression in diablo 3 Huh

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I think you’re taking it a bit far, but I definitely agree that a paragon system like D3 can have value.

The core issue is the infinite, linear mainstat scaling and that its normal to basically max everything out within every season.

A couple of suggestions for a better system, that is still infinite:

You can dramatically increase the number of affixes in the paragon pool, take out the attack/defense stats. Set a mathematical limit that is appropriate for each affix - as you put points in, you get less and less and never more than the limit, but you can put an infinite number if you wish. When your DR gets too eggregious you move on to another stat you like.

You could optionally keep the idea of rotating points into categories/groups of paragon affixes, or just allow folks to put points into what they want.

In this way, you can combine an infinite system with finite ranges to control power growth.

The next component is to not power creep the power of items like in D3, where sets do 70k% more damage. The power creep in the gear we wear is a massive part of what enabled paragon to get so out of hand, because higher and higher GR became speed runs for XP every season, and higher and higher amounts of Paragon became obtainable within a season. This doesn’t need to happen in Diablo 4, even if they increase the raw level cap with expansions.

I think we should get far fewer raw paragon levels per season. It shouldn’t be possible to max everything out, and different builds would want different paragon configurations.

Say the level cap is 40. Perhaps the average player should have 40-50 paragon levels at seasons end, and high end players between 75-100. A paragon affix could take perhaps 10 paragon levels before it hits heavy DR and you want to move off into something else.

Thats all tuning, but essentially have more choices to make, make it so each affix has a set limit you can never hit (DR + Mathematical Limit), highly improbable to get all affixes into heavy DR range, and far fewer paragon levels attainable in a season. No attack/defense as options.

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Yes, and you are the poster child of taking the middle road, right?

I think OP is exaggerating the case, but it isn’t misleading. They like the power scaling of paragon. They enjoy an infinite system that becomes a greater part of the players power. Lots of people do. Things you view as negatives others see as positives.

1 Like