D2R: Personal/Instanced Loot is a MUST for this game!

General Discussion
1616

So Blizzard can revamp a whole system but has no foresight or counter measures for such thing with veteran developers of decades? They can’t set rules for looting from what you kill scored, distance from kill and timed allocation? Unimaginable, I say. All they had to do is gameplay testing and they have hundreds for that to give them feedback at the drop of a hat.
Outside of combat zone, leechers still get the loot by swooping it or snap the leftovers. Timed allocation at least emphasize on players having limited inventory space when they fill it to the brim with charms; that allowing them to react or lose the loot. You’re all advocating to keep a 20 year old system.

Auto-looting bots still gonna rule the trade market, we get it. D2 classic servers still be out there when D2R released anyway. Dupes won’t be here on the new engine so you rather secure to keep bots and exploits, we understand. You have nothing to worry about, nor have to waste your time giving excuses.
Path of Exile and Grim Dawn both have instanced loot with trading, and they’re not crumbled to pieces. D2R developers made their choice. Really. Why are you still making up excuses about the idea?

At first it was about 8 times more loot, when that didn’t land on anything now it’s about hardcore mode. Are you believing this yourself? I think not. Even the most newbie player knows D2 economy ran on dupes for 20 years, ever since its release. Yet it will still continue to run on that, after D2R released.

1617

For some seconds. You still have to go there and click on it. Same with your idea. Though yeah, it means that everyone need to go click on it. That would be a difference against normal mobs. Not really a difference against bosses though.

You would not have to stand close with either timed loot or your system. Which is good.

Pretty easy to miss a drop when you are moving fast through the map. So it is important redundancy to have.

2 Likes
1618

Instanced loot/timed loot is merely a solution, it isn’t the only solution. But sure, copy other games… give players an identical experience, comfortable right?

Yes, players could die in some situations. Instanced loot is the worst possible solution… timed loot is okay I suppose, but like you mentioning boss drops… everyone stands around waiting for boss loot to drop so it can be allocated to someone? doesn’t sound fun to me, I’d rather deal with uncertainty of hacks… there is no denying placing players into loot vacuum chambers is bad if they are aware of it.

For noobs sure, for pros? It’s hard to miss a legendary tooltip when it is permanently on screen.

1619

That does nothing to stop pickit style scripts/bots from getting the items first before anyone else can. The entire point of having a PL option is so players cannot cheat to get the items all to themselves. This is one wart that needs to be LN2’d, scraped off, put into a rocket and blasted into the sun to be forever vanquished.

2 Likes
1620

can we pls move this to the D2R forum

1621

Legendaries should not be shown permanently on the map, and uniques arent in D2.
Dont know if it has been added to PoE, but it shouldnt be there either.

1622

Certain high value items (usually currencies) are shown on the minimap and map if you’re close enough. Outside a moderate range though, it won’t show.

1623

Still better than giving a comfortable experience to bots. Relax though, they’re not doing it at release. That’s part of their marketing stance now.

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1624

Not only that, but if and when they do introduce PL into the game, it won’t be the only way to play. They’ll be keeping FFA in there. It’ll just be that instead of cheaters being able suck items away from legitimate players, they’ll end up fighting amongst themselves in large part. It isn’t all that different in concept to other games where cheaters are only allowed to play with other cheaters, only it won’t be forced in D2R, just more likely.

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1625

Will be a quick 180 when they see all the new players refunding/leaving :slight_smile: thanks to the

and pickit users, who are strangely defended or are rather not worth to be mentioned when I read some posts of some obvious cheating andies. Maybe a GM could ban at least those on the spot before they contaminate the game.

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1626

Well they would be forced to play FFA otherwise their precious Pickit isn’t working :slight_smile: , but yeah the botting in general is even worse. It just takes away this feeling if you find a griffon f.e in pits/tunnels you id it aaaannd not perfect and you be like “meh the best light helm for sorc and java, but it isn’t perfect and one of those gazillion bots found it a couple more times and a couple of them perfect ones not worth that much”. And that’s what is kinda holding me back to play ladder tbh.

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1627

The opposite is true. We want FFA because personal loot does not promote multiplayer, it kills it. Look at D3 and WoW as an example, both are failures and both are essentially single-player games.

FFA encourages multiplayer. Personal loot is hand-holding, bloats the economy and is anti-social. FFA is like a pinata. You smash the pinata (monster) and candy (loot) falls out. All the kids (players) rush to grab the goodies. Personal loot would be like those helicopter parents that insist all the kids divide the candy equally. That sucks out all the fun from the process. You may as well just stand in line and wait to get your candy.

When players see loot drop and scramble to grab it, it creates conflict which is GOOD. Now you must interact with the other players. Talk to them. Can I have this? I’ll trade you this for that.

If personal loot was added even as an option, it would be exploited by players AND bots. Both would just run constant 8-player games to take advantage of the loot bonus, with no downside or risk involved to balance it out. Even if personal loot was divided in a way so no more loot than normal would drop, playing with 8players with no risk would dramatically inflate the economy.

People arguing for personal loot don’t understand game design and don’t understand diablo.

Adding personal loot just to placate the entitled masses will ruin this game. A game that has succeeded for TWO DECADES the way it is. Fix some bugs, sure, but FFA loot is an integral part of the game design, on PURPOSE.

If people want personal loot I beg them to just play literally any other game. This is D2. Why must people be so selfish and entitled that they even want to ruin one of the last remaining games that is good?

It’s objectively a selfish thing to do, to demand massive changes to a game that’s TWENTY YEARS OLD, (20! 2 decades) to make it more like every modern game that has a lifespan of a few months.

They did that for Diablo 3. They did all the things the cry-babies wanted, the entitled whining masses wanted, pandered to the common denominator, and look what happened.

D3 is an awful game that died on arrival.

1628

No, bots are doing that. And WoW a Single player game? Do you even know what MMORPG stands for?

I don’t know who it was, but this example is just perfect for it. “Would Legolas ninja away a staff that would boost Gandalf into oblivion, till he MAYBE finds a bow to trade it for?”

There was never the request of more loot.

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1629

FFA and PL both dole the same number of items out. No bloating either way. And the unhappiness of being script kiddied out of items I put in the effort to obtain legitimately sours me to multiplayer. And with FFA I’m standing in line, only the line never realistically moves.

You still interact with PL, because everyone’s going to want to know what the other just got (D2/D2R does not announce this in chat like D3 does). And you still have to interact to trade no matter what loot system is involved.

Monster scaling is much harsher in D2 than in D3. /players 8 isn’t realistic solo unless you’re vastly overgeared and don’t actually need gear anymore, and even then it isn’t anywhere near as efficient as a lower /players setting that you can clear much faster.

Ironic, since most of the players wanting FFA was the only option are almost certainly the ones running those scripts to snag all the items for themselves.

If multiplayer were actually made fun, I’d probably stick with it for a much longer time rather than on and off again like I do D3. In D3 multiplayer isn’t fun because most players are selfish (seeing a pattern here?). In D2 multiplayer isn’t fun because…selfishness leading to players cheating to obtain everything at the expense of the rest of the group that took part in the kills too. At least with PL you pays your money, you takes your chances, but it’s an equal chance. You still have to down the mobs after all or you get no loot.

D3 launched with no limits on trading. None. Hell, it even had RMTs and for a decent while, a duping problem. The lessons learned are what shaped RoS, and D3 has had more players in RoS than there were in vanilla. Players continue to play seasons, though botting, much like in D2, is still rampant. Bots aren’t an argument though, as that is always a cat and mouse game. But use of cheats to do things not normally doable within the game’s limitations is a valid argument.

Those that want FFA only want everything for themselves. Those that want PL, merely want an equal chance at the loot, and are content with the fact that they aren’t going to get something every time, and might not get something a majority of the time either. Better to be cheated by RNG than be script kiddies.

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1630

It’s a huge list of assorted straws arguments I saw all along the thread so it’s some effort you got there.

Middle road is possible. Party members get shared loot instance with higher quantity, and neutral players get separate instance of loot with less item quantity and restrictions about loot drops. It can be last hit or most damage dealt for timed allocation by proximity, where it applies. You can still get random items and trade them.

You have no excuse here but people either come up with something or go back to “you want 8 times more loot” debate when all we want is existing limited loot being randomly allocated. Just because you killed a monster and it dropped an item for a character in the party doesn’t mean it will repeat for 7 more instances.
Some players will get nothing on a random allocation or items that are not relevant for their class, just like shared loot. Yet this is still fine because we have a widely accessible arsenal of magical weapons and general benefit affixes in Diablo 2.

Bots and dupes bloat the economy but you’re willfullly ignorant to that because dupes are no more in this new engine and bots won’t spell out profit if other people rightfully claim their own loot. Bots in free-for-all system simply abuse higher quantity of items they get from a party game to auto loot all.
Some players will not take that and choose to solo anyway; that’s anti-social part of shared loot instance system. Every purist who defended shared loot instance told people to solo play or password their servers if they don’t like it. Then how shared loot is any social at the first place? It won’t really encourage player to interact with the public communities.

Game sustained itself over dupes and its economy controlled by a few groups of players and d2jsp market. Diablo 2 classic still there and D2R is a whole separate game which has separate servers. If you only care about dupes and bot runs to profit over d2jsp you can still do it in Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction. Just 20 years later, we don’t wanna see that attitude which would kill public multiplayer after a short while. Neither we are obliged to praise or endorse the use of bots over multiplayer.

Anyone who wanna avoid auto looting bots will be bound to playing solo with your system and public games will hit a dead end, as allure of ladder will be short lived if it repeats the same design. That’s bad for multiplayer interaction and Monthly Active Users of the company.
People won’t sit well with 20 year old content or systems, when they’re forced to find trustworthy friends who lives in different timelines around the world just to play the most basic runs or forced to play solo because anti-cheat measures are not enough.

Only playing Diablo 2 for 20 years won’t make you an expert on game design either. Compared to other games it’s obvious that the current chosen design in Diablo 2 stems from lack of resources; mostly not enough memory to separate the player loot instances in multiplayer.
Even David Brevik has suggested this was the case back in the day and purists are not short of calling one of the forefathers of the franchise, bad names as seen in the thread. No, I don’t care what yesterday’s Diablo 2 Youtubers said about the matter either. Most of the Diablo 2 youtubers profit from bot runs and d2jsp. However, there are Diablo 2 streamers out there who hate auto loot bots with all their being too. We don’t have to endorse bots or hacks, nor have to bear anything because that’s how things went down so far.

You have no hope of trading with someone who swept the loot under your nose or an auto loot bot which won’t respond to you, ever. With instanced loot you can still be able to trade items as random allocation of loot calls for that and it doesn’t prevent anyone.
If you want to see what people looted then it can be handled by a work of user interface with a feedback console to the players in the game for informing them about who looted which item. When all you ever played was Diablo 2 along this 20 years and nothing else, you shouldn’t assume every game is same or developers are short of solutions.

Diablo 3 offering; +99999% magic find and loot quantity per difficulty scale passively, or smart loot system giving you items tailored for your class with pity timer, trading interactions and loot instances are entirely different systems.
One system affects quantity, other affects quality, one other influence a timer or stats, another regulates the peer-to-peer trading interaction and all of them are irrelevant of player instances for loot allocation. They’re not one whole package but different systems of one game, that is not even Diablo 2. No one is willing to take your precious Diablo 2 away from you by replacing it with Diablo 3. An additional feedback for looted items won’t ruin the game for anyone.

To add, smart loot won’t even apply to Diablo 2 anyway as it doesn’t even have stat based classes. As a staple, 2/3 of what you got will be off class on a solo play. Regardless of separate instance or shared, you have to haggle and contact with others to trade as loot always end up randomly claimed at both systems. Separate instances won’t interfere with your trading sessions, nor it will hand out class related items to everyone as that’s such a vague concept thinking of how end game characters progress evolve into.
I believe none of you can tell or care to tell, because it’s another argument to fall back upon right after “you want 8 times more loot” like separating instances call for increasing the loot ever or blocking the trading. That’s not what other games did, but you don’t care to play them either.

Path of Exile and Grim Dawn have separated loot instances and trading, yet their economy are not crumbling. The Path of Exile has higher Google Trend search score over Diablo 2 and Diablo 3; taking popular searches all around the world. Path of Exile still has those systems still intact and planning a second game. Yet you’re not tired of bringing up “economy will be ruined” when Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction ran on dupes for 20 years and still continue to this day. It seems fine to me.

For 20 years or two decades, Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction ran on dupes and d2jsp money. For 20 years where you haven’t played anything but that, you didn’t have time to raise your head to look around and compare it with other games.
You have no excuse, yet you can relax as developers are not doing such change at release and I’m not hopeful about ladder start or new seasons either. You don’t have to beg Blizzard to keep bots going I believe.

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1631

How is WoW single player? It’s an mmorpg. And how is WoW a failure? That game brought tons of money to Blizzard. Some would argue the reason Diablo has gone so long without a new game/content is because they were so focused on their money maker - WoW.

D3 has an active multiplayer base. Most GR 150 pushes relies on 4 man groups. Most bounties are done in groups. D3 even has clan functionality.

Even with ploot, I get the same interaction in early seasons where folks are gearing up. Folks asking other party members to be on the look out for so and so gear. If you don’t talk to folks in your party, that’s your own choice.

Saying D3 failed because of ploot is pretty face palm. The reason D3 has it’s problems is related to the lack of depth to class skills and items.

The rest of your issues have already been addressed by folks who posted above.

Thank you.

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1632

Personal loot is a terrible terrible name to use, it inherently draws people to the conclusion that it is what D3 uses, which is NOT what people are asking for.

D2’s loot is FFA (free for all). What a lot of people do want in D2 is is something called TAP (temporarily assigned loot) Personal loot has nothing to do with it. Personal loot as it is used in D3 created a whole loot table for every person in the group that only that player can see and loot, that is a big nono, and not what people are asking for.

Temporarily assigned loot is exactly the same as D2 uses, the only difference is that not everyone is free to pick it up, the game rolls behind the scenes that “x” item is only lootable by “y” person within a certain time frame before it becomes FFA which then everyone can fight for it. Make it like 3 seconds, 5 seconds or 10 seconds. everyone in the group can see the “x” item drop, but it is just a little grayed out which indicates that it belongs to somebody else for a few seconds.

1633

No it doesn’t.

Also, D3 is irrelevant, since it doesn’t use the system people are talking about for D2R.

Btw, WoW essentially a single player game?!

There is no loot bonus.

No, this is indeed D2, that is why people want to play it.
It continues to be D2, with Timed Allocation loot.

I tend to agree.

Yep. If the ploot discussion was a company, the entire PR team should be fired :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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1634

I think /players 8 would solve this… then just do your own games… Also i think that if your greater than 5 lvls from person making the kill u should get NO experience. as the game is now you can get to lvl 90 have best gear in game without having ever killed a single thing.

1635

Doesnt help those who like to play with others.

Not this I would agree with in general. Boosting should be impossible in games like this.
Maybe too much of a change for a remaster, but still, boosting is silly.