D2R: Personal/Instanced Loot is a MUST for this game!

[ǶDOOMBRA-2662]

@Hawkeye-1335

Free for all loot makes for participation? Really?? Stop making me laugh.

Participation and encouragement for using cheats

[Shadout-2849]

@thorn-1882

just add /players command to realm…

Agreed. That really should happen.
But Loot Distribution as a toggle should also happen.

@naksiloth-1354

Companies don’t hand mod tools to their community like old times

Mod tools have historically not been that important. The most extensive mods go far beyond what any official mod tools or guides will allow anyway. Also in Bethesda games.

This is the fake news part; that “online only and DRM is preventing modding in most modern games”. Simply not true.
Since relatively close to 100% of modern games are playable offline.

@naksiloth-1354

I failed to find any option to opt-out from updates on Steam games though

You can choose at which hours the games auto update, in steams settings. Just choose some off-hour. And yeah, run Steam in offline mode when launching the games you don’t want to update.

[Faith-2661]

Personal loot in D2? Definitely a big yes please from me.
And yes I have played D2 a lot. Especially in its first decade since release.

And no, I do not expect personal loot to happen.

[JonesSwiggy-1184]

Thank you for posting this, I forgot brevik had said that!

[JonesSwiggy-1184]

We found another pickit user boys

[ǶDOOMBRA-2662]

The beta was fun was playing with Datmodz and boys from his stream. Sadly the beta will be more successful than release will, cause the loot is the same, same endgame, same ONLY 3 classes are able to do and obviously the cheating andies even getting more time till ladder releases to dust of their cheating tools. Pretty sad another failed venture D2 deforged.

[ǶDOOMBRA-2662]

Public loot is more like going to the cinema and having to sit behind a tall guy, a group of chatty teenagers and a business person with an unsnoozed mobile phone (the hackers who ruined the legacy game and will do it again. Just look at D3 and the top 50 after 2-3 weeks everyone who’s near 20k Paragon or above should be perma banned cause he’s a botter same with WoW retail&classic). You pay the full price, you sit for an hour and still you missed most of the movie.
Nowadays you can simply subscribe to a streaming service and watch it in the privacy of your home. No people who are selfish and take your enjoyment out of rudeness. Also far more time- and money-efficient.

Had to steal this from Blash in another thread

[ǶDOOMBRA-2662]

Well my conclusion is that, thanks to not implementing PLoot optional or global and even delaying the ladder start, they’re literally begging the cheating andies to cheat at this point it will be so bad and sad (again).

[Snake-21478]

Personal Loot will save Online.

[TheTias-1192]

@TraumWandler-21310

A poll from Blizz showed around 1/3 of the asked player wishes for personal loot and if there are limitations to trading even more than 50% of that poll wished for personal loot. The massive amount of threads to this theme is another prove. This is not niche, this is a massive group of players, that is ignored.
Many purists only offend all those players. The only argument the can say is economy or old play feeling, but so many of them just can offend the others. That is so poor. If you need to start to offend people for their opinion, then in most situations you are emotional, because the other one has the better reasons.

As much as I want personal loot as an option, especially for players using controllers whom will have a very difficult time picking up loot vs. KB/M users, I am going to do my best not to disrespect others’ opinions since my view is also an opinion. Are we emotional about this? You better damn well believe it. Both sides are. That’s fine. As angry as I get at how those we label as “purists” treat those of us that want a more fairly balanced game, name calling and being wholly disrespectful isn’t going to accomplish anything except to escalate the situation to something worse.

Did Rod Ferguson say anything wrong from a factual standpoint? No. Did he disrespect those of us that have legitimate issues with the FFA loot scheme? Yes. His tone was indiferent and demeaning toward us. Unfortunately I don’t know if that was intended or if it was just that he was feeling exasperation from the onslaught of anger from both sides. But he definitely didn’t even attempt to unify players or de-escalate the situation, that’s for sure. And despite that I’m not going after him, just as I haven’t been going after those that treat folks like me with disrespect and disregard.

I do, however, firmly believe Blizzard needs to step in and find a way to de-escalate the situation. It’s getting intense enough that the open hostilities between the two sides threatens to dampen any enthusiasm a lot of players have (or as of now, had) for D2R. And right now whoever steps in needs to be someone other than Rob Ferguson. I doubt players on the personal loot side are going to take kindly to anything he says in the near future, whether that is deserved or not.

@TraumWandler-21310

So what the hell is wrong with it? Why the hell do so many purists offend player, who just use their freedom for an own opinion, own feedback and own wishes? Even one of the developer of D2 wished for personal loot, as a thread and a video linked in it showed.

One thing you might want to do in order to make this more of a useful discussion is to not purposely antagonize the “other side”, as it were. The same goes for them not antagonizing us. We’re close enough to launch that nothing new is going to be added before then. No amount of pitchforks is going to change that since time, while infinite in either direction, is finite within the limits set by the release date.

@FrodoFragins-1142

Exactly on giving players choices when creating/joining games. POE is often too reverential to D2 but even they accepted that FFA doesn’t work for a LOT of people and added those game options.

I suspect that the developers and even Blizzard employees outside of Vicarous Visions are at least somewhat offended at being compared to GGG/PoE. At this point, I don’t care since I’ve played PoE on both PC and console and I know for a fact that they nailed down the console controls (minus removing force stand still and not at least letting us keep it as an option in lieu of the third set of button binds). I even specifically stated in my functionality review that the VV devs should fire up PoE on their PS5 or whatever console they have available and learn what GGG did and copy the hell out of it. They got it right and even vendors are not tedious, unlike vendors in D2R. There’s no shame in copying or mimicking something that works unbelievably well, especially when it’s just funcitonality we’re talking about. The rest of the game is purely VV/Blizzard in style and execution.

@Mathalamus-1829

you arent supposed to use mules. you are supposed to sell every item you dont use. whats the point of sticking it in a mule if you never use it?

For other characters that will use them. I’m not exactly going to toss a shako or oculous to a vendor when I know it will be an instant equip on a sorceress (or any other character for the shako). Players don’t appreciate having to hunt for the same loot twice just because they had to throw it away due to lack of space. That is why we got the shared stash in the first place (that and to reduce load on the Battle.net servers from constant entering and exiting of games).

@slipknotking-1912

Not only are you asking for ploot but also drop rate changes. This is exactly the slippery slope of bs I’m worried about ruining this game. Won’t be long now before microtransactions…ooh! Maybe we should get participation trophies too!!1!one!

You keep saying the same thing about drop rates and none of us are asking for increased drop rates. Repeatedly saying the same thing over and over again does not make it any more true than it was before.

@slipknotking-1912

Remove the bots and make it pretty, it’s really not that hard. This loot entitlement is so childish.

Pot, meet Kettle.

@Moforyguy-1430

Well the real truth is personal loot doesn’t belong in any conversation involving D2 cuz it’s a D3 thing.

It’s just “a thing”, not a “D3 thing”. It’s in nearly every ARPG out there, all MMOs, and even a lot of other multiplayer games. It’s there because it’s the fairest of the systems. But in games that have the ability to do so, it is also not the only option. Path of Exile has personal (instanced) loot, which does not increase the amount of items that drop from a mob or boss, but it also still has FFA, and even a timed personal loot window before all items become FFA. Players can choose any of the three when making their games. That’s all we’re really asking for.

@slipknotking-1912

Hero editing, pickit, map hacks, botters, and gold farmers ruined diablo 2 bnet. Not the way that loot was distributed.

You just contradicted yourself here. Pickit doesn’t work in D3 because it is instanced (personal) loot. Personal loot in D2R eliminates pickit as a problem for the games that are created using that option. Remember, FFA will always be an option when creating a game, so that mode isn’t going anywhere.

@slipknotking-1912

Ploot is an equality of outcome system. Everyone is fair and gets total equal drops or use the need/greed system of WoW (which doesn’t fn work anyway as everyone hits need). But that does not work for those who pop in, stand there while the boss is killed 1-2 screens away, and waits for the drop.

Actually, it does. If you don’t tag a mob, you don’t get loot. That’s pretty trivial to implement. If you sit there and do nothing from afar and don’t contribute to the fight, your character isn’t considered in the personal loot distribution and you see nothing on the ground when the boss is dead. WoW uses the same system, while D3 merely uses a proximity system (which still allows leeching).

@slipknotking-1912

Both have flaws. Both get you uninvited in the next game. So why change the current system if they’re both basically the same?

The things that get you uninvited aren’t the loot mechanics, it’s your personal behaviour. If you behave in a manner that offends the players in the game, you aren’t going to be brought into the next game and they’ll just vote kick you out.

@slipknotking-1912

Technically, mods are breaking the law but since blizzard doesn’t press charges, they exist and essentially made their own game and used diablo to do it.

Yeah, there’s an active community on modded servers. But if you really want to go this route with your argument, blizzard can shut it down whenever they want to as it is their intellectual property.

Pick a better argument.

Actually, they don’t break any laws at all. For it to be enforceable that way Blizzard has to go after them. By not doing so (or by explicitly encouraging mods as some other companies do), they can’t claim IP theft as long as there is no profit from the mod. The moment a mod erects a paywall, they’re making money off IP Blizzard owns, and then they can be taken down.

So you might want to pick a better argument yourself.

@slipknotking-1912

At what cost? Will we need mtx for the extra time the team is adding to the project to compensate the cost of a 1x purchase?
What else might get changed because of it?
Bugs introduced, how long to fix, if it’s fixed?
Why not wait till the game is stable before asking for nonsense?
Will this cause different realms now? If yes, what’s the cost to maintain?
Is this the only addition to the game? If not, well, then it’s now a remake. We gonna have classic and modded and toggleable?

Every last one of these is a strawman argument. You might want to actually do some critical thinking about these, because none of these “scenarios” you’ve dreamed up would materialize in reality.

What you keep falling into is the perfect solution fallacy, wherein if there is no “perfect” solution, then no solution should be implemented at all. That’s what is gripping the US Congress currently and why nothing gets done for the most part. There’s a reason this is called a fallacy.

@slipknotking-1912

I paid for something and would like it to remain as advertised, “Classic gameplay—the same Diablo II you know and love, preserved.”

And you would have a version that maintained what you want since you could still make games with FFA loot rules. You just wouldn’t be playing with other players that prefer personal loot. But since you’d be playing with like minded players, there shouldn’t be an issue, right? Or is the fact that players that want a more enjoyable experience are getting it and that somehow takes away from your own unchanged experience?

@Whiplash-1743

look no further than wow to see that this “loot for everyone” is not only a terrible design choice, but is also anti-social. Combine that with generous drop rates and you have a casual recipe for destruction, no matter how many people whine about not getting the best items in the game on the forums, it’s a TERRIBLE idea.

As I stated in another post, WoW’s personal loot system does not increase drop rates. X amount of items drop from a boss. Only X number of players in the group or raid will receive an item. Where WoW’s system differs from other personal loot systems is that they only allow one item per player per boss with the only exceptions being quest items, currency items, and system specific items (e.g. runecarver memories in Shadowlands dungeons and raids). None of this affects being social. In fact, it has increased social activity for many because players could no longer ninja loot items and prevent others from getting any loot at all. Master looter is gone outside of guild runs for the same reason.

@Raztax-1315

It would pump out items at a much higher rate than normal which is how it changes the economy.

Do explain how this would occur when the same number of items total drop. Oh wait, you can’t, because the math very clearly debunks that statement.

Anywho, continue the discussion. Just at least try to be civil.

[Mathalamus-1829]

@TheTias-1192

For other characters that will use them. I’m not exactly going to toss a shako or oculous to a vendor when I know it will be an instant equip on a sorceress (or any other character for the shako). Players don’t appreciate having to hunt for the same loot twice just because they had to throw it away due to lack of space. That is why we got the shared stash in the first place (that and to reduce load on the Battle.net servers from constant entering and exiting of games).

thats not what i mean. read it carefully. i asked what the point of having the item if you will never use it.

[TheTias-1192]

If you aren’t going to use it, you may decide to trade it. Even if it’s just for something to tide one of your lower level characters over. Most items do have value for trading. And without dupes, D2R’s items will be worth more relative to what they are worth in D2C where dupes abound. Havint stash space at least lets you decide when to trade it vs. having to do it right away and take time away from what you’re trying to do at the moment.

[ǶDOOMBRA-2662]

@Snake-21478

Personal Loot will save Online.

I love you Snake

[ǶDOOMBRA-2662]

@TheTias-1192

And without dupes, D2R’s items will be worth more relative to what they are worth in D2C where dupes abound

All I can read/hear out of the majority of the criers here is "I want to keep my precious cheating tools and I want to rob newbies and make them regret paying 40$ for this game and disgust them out of MY game " . And for those who still use the leech argument, I mean what is better? Participate in a fight and (maybe as range player) get loot for it or afk ALT holding melee andies doing nothing and waiting to snatch everyone’s loot away or even better not even hits the ground, cause a bot/pickit user snatched it before the system even showed you the drop?

And for the quote yeah must feel really good then to find a almost/perfect item and you think yourself “well a multi botting (R word) with 100000 bots and pickit baalrun snatchers got this item like 50 times by the time I got 1 feels really moralising.”

[TraumWandler-21310]

I found the perfect pro-ploot post (click open to read).
It should be a sticky and has all the arguments to end the discussion (although FFA-Fans dont like to hear it and tried to invalidate it, they cannot, because all their arguments are debunked.)

Please put PERSONAL LOOT

Because there are things that D2 does better than PoE and things that PoE does better than D2. If there is a way to bring a good system from PoE over to D2 without impacting D2 then there is no harm in it. So far there have been only few common arguments against ploot that would make d2 worse. All have been more or less debunked. First i will list the common arguments that debunk: same item drops as in FFA mode (en par with 8 player pub) FFA mode is still available statistically loot is di…

But we know, there will be FFA only on launch and to me it looks like they are too afraid of the toxic purists, to make it even toggable ploot.

[naksiloth-1354]

@TheTias-1192

especially for players using controllers whom will have a very difficult time picking up loot vs. KB/M users

There’s no word of crossplatform play yet. Even though you’re capable of playing from consoles or desktop on demand by crossplatform saves, crossplatform play isn’t planned. You can use your saved character on consoles, but you won’t be able to play with people using their desktop computers.
Vice versa apply when you play from desktop to not see any console players. Even though saved character can be used on different platforms and progress saves, appears that console and desktop servers would be separated.

@TheTias-1192

Did Rod Ferguson say anything wrong from a factual standpoint? No.

He stated that he won’t be doing personal loot at the release. I say give them time, eventually they will cave in to the demand when they see how bad the impact of hackers could be in their brand new game.

They’ll eventually realize that it’s easy to put restrictions on the game rather than hoping to ban the offenders one by one in a slow fashion. Sadly, this also means hackers will have plenty of time to sweep away loot to sell in the first months. When they finally decide and settle down on something it will be too late and botters will already be counting their profit from it.
If they haven’t learn anything from the bots in WoW TBC Classic recently and auto looting bots in Diablo 2 along this 20 years, nothing can convince them to add restrictions to slow down botters in D2R. They made their choice by ignoring the past.

It’s easy to separate instances for neutral players while keeping shared loot in parties as you write different rulesets for it. By the odds parties would always get more loot quantity and neutral players get still slight drops by reduced chance as long as they are allowed. There are examples of this out there, such as Path of Exile and Grim Dawn.

However, this debate is convicted to be interrupted by straw arguments while D2 ran by duped items along the two decades to the point of creating famous duped items. Now dupe glitches would be patched and removal of TCP/IP clearly means it’d be impossible to hold important data at client side, d2jsp fellows are planning on how to profit off from that hype. It’s only natural that some fans gonna taste the hyped market of Diablo 2 like the olden days but they won’t stay for long when they can’t adapt. Think it as an ugly marketing technique.

[ǶDOOMBRA-2662]

@naksiloth-1354

I say give them time, eventually they will cave in to the demand when they see how bad the impact of hackers could be in their brand new game.

@naksiloth-1354

If they haven’t learn anything from the bots in WoW TBC Classic recently and auto looting bots in Diablo 2 along this 20 years, nothing can convince them to add restrictions to slow down botters in D2R. They made their choice by ignoring the past.

Both quotes are pretty much the same. They still can’t handle bots (see diablo3 old D2 WoW Overwatch (yes there are even OW bots not speaking/typing doing either nothing or yolo run forward and holding left/right click) but more hackers) and D2R will be flooded for keeping this thrash loot table and even delaying the ladder by 2-3 weeks to give them time taking the dust of their cheating tools.
Ahhhh can’t wait for the ultimate forum/reddit chitstorm

[lightstorm-6232]

Ploot or no ploot doesnt matter in D2 because you are not going do find anything in muliplayer games. You need to grind MF in solo games the same bosses/areas over and over and over again.

FFA gives an illusion that drop rates are higher than they actually are.

Lets say you have 8 players playing multiplayer for 2 hours and a set item drops (FFA) You think thats amazing even if you dont get to pick up the item.

But what is actually happening is that the above is equivalent of One player playing solo for 16 hrs to get that one item (that will almost certainly be useless for your class, let alone build so you will have to engage with the most toxic gaming community to ‘trade’.)

Good luck with that in 2021.

[TheTias-1192]

@naksiloth-1354

There’s no word of crossplatform play yet. Even though you’re capable of playing from consoles or desktop on demand by crossplatform saves, crossplatform play isn’t planned. You can use your saved character on consoles, but you won’t be able to play with people using their desktop computers.
Vice versa apply when you play from desktop to not see any console players. Even though saved character can be used on different platforms and progress saves, appears that console and desktop servers would be separated

Desktop has both controller and KB/M modes. Console doesn’t enter into the picture here as there is no KB/M mode there.

[naksiloth-1354]

It won’t be here at the launch they said, just like personal loot won’t be.

The big Diablo 2 Resurrected interview

You’ve got cross-progression, but given you’ve got controller support on PC, did you look at cross-play?
Rob Gallerani: Right now you can play against people, because there will be global leaderboards, but you can’t play immediately with them. So there won’t be cross-play.

Is there a reason why you can’t do that? Is it coming in the future?
Rod Fergusson: It’s something we looked at, for sure, as part of looking at cross-progression, but the cross-progression was the clearest indication of what we should be doing. And so cross-play is something we continue to look at. But it’s not something that’s going to be in there at launch.