If there was a way to directly control pylon spawns, then I’d agree. Sure there is some skill in knowing when to click it, but if it spawns at the end of a floor there is nothing you can do about it.
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No, it just means a lot of pylon spawn locations, which are near the exit of the current map, will result in you not getting the benefit from the clone.
There is a way. In a previous update to the pylon spawn, your rift progression (elite/rare packs killed plus overall progression) will spawn a pylon in designated spots. If you are progressing well, and have started the level with no pylons, it is advisable to run ahead through the spawn spots to prevent the spawns from happening at the end of the level.
Pylons will not spawn if you expose the area ahead of rift progression.
A lot of teams will take advantage of the pylon spawning by having one person run ahead to prevent spawning at the end of the level.
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There are multiple pylon spots throughout a level. When a pylon spawns depends on your Rift progression (based on elite/rares killed and progression indicated by your progression meter). You just have to remember where the spawn locations are.
Pylons will not spawn in already explored areas. Therefore, you can actually run ahead to the end, if you are progressing well, to achieve a pylon spawn at the beginning, or near the beginning of the next level.
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This requires a tremendous amount of map knowledge and memory, more than the average player will have. It also isn’t always feasible on large maps while playing solo (especially with a slower-moving build).
Let’s not confuse “pylon management skill” with “exploiting game mechanics”. I disagree with your opinion that clones should not follow to new areas only for the sake of pylon management.
I think the clones should be alive as long as their respective pylons are active, simple as that.
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This may make the Flavor of Time too strong. It already is the best amulet for most builds in the game.
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Fair enough. I first thought they should move with you to the next level. Then I realized, it is just fine if they stay as it would give more challenge to top level players.
The average player doesn’t reach the high level GRs. At best, they barely make it onto the top 1000. If clones were to be allowed to follow to the next level, where would the challenge be for top level players?
At a certain point, it becomes less about the gear, and more about the player’s knowledge of the game mechanics and proper management of them.
The pylon spawn, based on progression, is not an exploit but an intended design. It gives the extra challenge to the cream of the crop of players. And managing pylons is a skill, one that the average player doesn’t even think about, but can progress much further if they do.
It is like riding in a bike race where everyone is of equal health and stamina. The skill isn’t in the peddling of the bike faster than the rest, it is about managing time, “rest” periods, deciding when to push, or deciding when to drag. Heck, you can use any sports analogy to support this claim.
Here is what’s known about the Pylons.
- There are only five pylons per Greater Rift run - Power, Channeling, Shield, Speed and Conduit.
- They spawn in certain areas - there are a lot of these areas per map level.
- They never spawn in an already explored area - which would make it seem that they have limited spawn areas if you cruise through a map quickly.
- They never spawn after a Rift Guardian appears.
- They spawn based on progression - There is a formula, which I do not have exactly, but an idea of it is something like … if progression = 30% or two elite rare packs killed, then spawn one of five pylons at coordinates.
It is a little more complex than that to be sure.
So, the player has to decide things like …
- Is it taking longer to kill this pack?
- Should I group them up more?
- Should I move onto the next pack?
- Am I near the end?
- I’ve reached my “30%” progression, and cruising, but no pylons. Should I take the time to go down a side alley where one might be? Do I have the time to take the risk?
- Should I kill off these mobs on this level hoping to spawn the pylon at the beginning of the next?
- Do I need to make a run to end, because progression is going well, to prevent a spawn before the next level?
- Will it be more beneficial to me to speed to the end? If I do this, I can control the progression, and increasing the chance of a pylon spawn at the beginning of next level.
Sure, the average person doesn’t think about these things, but like everything else, the more you do, the more it becomes second hand nature.
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While this is true, you are also forgetting that you can cause yourself to lose a pylon if you overextend the map. In other words, if you are just short of 25 percent and you push forward so as not to spawn a pylon you can inadvertently despawn a pylon that would have otherwise shown up. This is why you can end up with fewer pylons than expected.
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This is literally the “Blizzard can give you free money and people would complain”.
Seasonal clone buff is, for the most part, braindead dps increase. And people want it to be %100 brainded dps increase. Why? Instead let’s have the seasonal buff be a flat %50 dmg increase because it sounds like that’s what you want with clones following to the next level.
You can scout ahead, learn more about maps and pylon spawns, increase your game knowledge, unlock new puzzles, but you just want the damn clone to follow to the next level because you can’t be bothered to solve these, VERY EASY tasks?
Really is just sad. I’m glad clones are for the floor only, because this way there’s at least SOME amount of skill involved.
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Some food for thought
- Clones only last for 60 seconds. They do not last the rest of your game session. And they do not last for the entire map. (Unless it’s a small map or you’ve already cleared most of the map).
- Bounties do not have Pylons, only Shrines. If a Bounty requires you to travel to an area, enter a Dungeon and a Shrine is near the Dungeon entrance, the Clone does not follow you into the Dungeon.
- Greater Rifts only have Pylons, not Shrines.
- Nephalem Rifts have both, Pylons and Shrines. This is probably where players have the most advantage. But still, each Clone only lasts 60 seconds.
This is still just my opinion, but I believe Clones should follow us, wherever we go, as long as we remain in a hostile area. They should expire only if we return to town.
In Multiplayer games, only the player or players that return to town should have their Clones expire. The players that remain in the hostile area should retain their Clones until the 60 seconds expire.
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Really, though. What is the point? In “Farm mode” you are clearing rifts, bounties, quests in no time flat almost to the point where the only thing slowing you down is the speed in getting you to the next target. At which point, clones are useless.
This is what I see for season 22. If the GR cap isn’t raised, you will see more people at GR150 clears than what was in Season 21, let alone previous seasons. This will be all due to the clones existence for the season.
With clones up all of the time until you run to town, where would be the challenge?
The season 22 clones are no where near the power level of the season 21 random elements.
Edit: there was a PTR update just now that says they changed the shadow clone power formula so I might need to update this comment.
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Update - Shadow clones do not disappear when going to town. They will be there if you go back to the level you ported out of and if within the time limit. Yes, I was shocked to see that they were there when I ported back to the rift.
The difference is, the elements were uncontrollable, and it was tricky to drop mobs or RG onto them.
Honestly, lots of great ideas & thoughts in here…But one door/portal & maintain the 60 seconds time limit. I think that would be the way to go for the clones. I’ve not tested them again since the changes. Anyone have any updates on them?
They currently work the same.
- Activated by Shrine or Pylon.
- They last 60 seconds.
- And they stay in the area where they were spawned. (No town and no next Level).
We’ll know more when the PTR server is back online. But, so far, I don’t expect them to change.
I’ve noticed, before the servers went down, that when ported out to town, and go back into the rift, the Clones were still there. After about 10 or so more seconds, charging down the hallways etc., they disappeared. I gathered I came back within the 60 second time frame.
The other variable is that this occurred in a normal rift. Maybe that is the case, but I doubt they would have two separate behaviors for an already complex mechanic.
You don’t need to memorize all the pylon locations. Just scout out and expose more of the map before you kill the monsters.
It won’t work for speed runs but for push you can absolutely minimalist the chance for a pylon spawn on your floor by controlling how much of the map you reveal.
They said something about changing the skill combos/CC etc. I was just wondering if it changed their efficacy?