Well, the Wiz has been nerfed for next season. See the patch notes here:
[Chantodo’s Resolve]
bye Bye Wiz 
It’s too soon to say as we don’t know how much they reduced the scaling of the attack speed bonus to wave of destruction.
While we need to see how much the attack speed bonus has been reduced, this is still likely a nerf. Unfortunately, Vyr Wiz may not be so prominent in Group GRs after this adjustment.
It was never suppose to be a top solo build or even high GR group. It was that one speed GR / farming build we were desperately lacking. TR Meteor, too slow, too clunky; DMO, too slow, too clunky; FB too slow, too clunky. Vyr’s, not enough damage. Enter Chants, fixes the damage so it can do fast speed rifts but wasn’t suppose to make it > literally everything else.
It outclassed Area damage builds. AD builds give things 4-6x damage modifier which chants does not. It’s a problem when builds with AD besides Star Pact cannot beat a ‘speed farming’ build in damage.
Imagine if that new Sweeping Winds set for monks which is clearly just for speed farming did 100,000% damage modifier instead of 10,000, sounds stupid right? Well that’s about where Chants is right now!
We’ll have to wait and see what goodies we get for wizard sets and wizard item rebalances. For now, least we still have Starpact and gasp maybe we can once again use some other skills with LoD like Frozen Orb or ET now that Chants doesn’t make it obsolete?
I won’t argue whether nerfing Chantodo is due or not. Issue is, the only thing wizards will get for 2.6.7 is a nerf. That in itself sure doesn’t feel very nice, even for me - and I despise Archon.
Thats totally wrong, no one ever stated that Chantodo is a pure speed farm Set.
In your mindset WoL monk would also be only a Speed build not top tier Pushing build.
Nerf bat meet face.
Face meet nerf bat.
I think they are lowering the scaling on Chantodo because of EF and the new season buff based on kill streak. One of them gives IAS.
The notes are again disappointing. This kill streak thing seems like a thin sugar coating on top of existing RNG.
Can’t they just fix stuff?? How about season of fixed stuff like so many dead items in the game. Remember they said that they didn’t have kill streaks in rifts/GRs because that was the one of the implicit goals of the feature.
Oh noes the sky is falling!
Will take revenge by asking for nerve the future bard
i’m sad for CHANTODO
Is it just me, or does this seem like a weird way of doing it? Unless they are making attack speed not buff the wave at all I suppose, but if it’s not a full nerf to the attack speed bonus this just seems weird.
What makes more sense? 4000% WD per Chantodo stack and 1/2 value of attack speed multiplier on Chantodo’s wave? Or 2000% WD per Chantodo stack and full attack speed multiplier on Chantodo’s wave?
Both of those options will give identical DPS. Except the second option is way more readable and easier to understand for players.
Taking it out of the attack speed portion instead of the WD just seems like a needless overcomplication of the mechanics. If the goal is to nerf Chantodo’s by x amount, taking WD/x instead of (attack speed multiplier)/x makes more sense to me. And ultimately accomplishes the same goal.
IAS was never a Problem with Chantodo, you always Have 5 IAS in your DMG Phase (Double Stacks) also you will NEVER EVER Equip EF in a Vyr Chantodo Setup
Reducing the cap for scaled attack speed damage opens Chantodo more for use with other sets. Builds such as Tal and FB Chantodo have more opportunity to shine in comparison to Vyr.
Some players love those builds and others could care less about them. It’s all about direction that you’d rather take. High cap on scaled attack speed influences Chantodo usage with Vyr only (aside from nephalem rifting perhaps). Lower amount of scaled makes Chantodo more open to usage with other sets.
Historically I haven’t enjoyed these other playstyles as much as with Vyr, but I can recognize the benefits (and detriments) of diversity. We should ask ourselves what is better?
Full AS damage scaling, but nerf main damage,
No AS damage scaling, but increased main damage (still an overall nerf because the increase isn’t enough to make up for scaling damage lost)
A partial nerf to AS damage scaling cap. Some damage from AS scaling is left in place. (Current proposed nerf).
The downside of having no AS damage scaling in place would be you have to balance these other sets against each Chantodo variant. So, any time you want to increase the damage bonus of Tal or FB, you indirectly make it’s respective archon / Chantodo build king. When you look at it with this in mind, perhaps option 3 (current proposed) is the right approach.
Edit (10/22/2019): specified cap for AS damage scaling in mentions. Was not specific on this at the time of posting.
Thanks Cratic
Even tho the other builds will (sadly) stay trash tier in comparison to vyr variant unless they buff one set (Or LoN/LoD to work with 2 set bonuses lol)
No it doesn’t. Not as long as they leave the attack speed in.
stacks*(WD/stack)*(IAS/x)= stacks*(WD/stack)/x*(IAS) for all values of IAS, stacks, WD/stack, and x. Assuming everything is the same for both cases except where you put the /x.
As an example: at 4000% WD and 1.54 APS / 2x scalar vs. at 2000%WD and 1.54 APS with no attack speed scalar, a non-Vyr’s Chantodo’s build does exactly the same damage in both situations.
This is assuming that it’s a flat scalar to IAS. It doesn’t matter where you divide the damage by x, it’s mathematically equivalent.
The only situation where this changes is if they remove the attack speed scalar entirely. Or if they scale the attack speed in some way that’s not constant (e.g. bonus damage is linear but then capped, e.g. at 1 APS you get 1x bonus, at 2 APS you get 2x bonus, but at >2 APS you still get 2x bonus)
Assuming they leave the attack speed bonus in but just scale it by some constant, it’s mathematically equivalent to scale the WD part by that constant instead.
This is all a bit premature though, we’ll have to see exactly how it was implemented to know for sure. If they just remove the attack speed scalar entirely, then this is all moot. But if they just scale it like the wording implies, it really doesn’t matter where you put that scalar. It’s still mathematically the same for Vyr’s and non-Vyr’s builds alike.
@Timer:
While those who are going to for maximum efficiency may not run EF from the cube slot, you have to understand that we are dealing with Activision/Blizzard so they could/would totally use that EF option as a justification. I am not justifying the nerf. They could have left Vyr/Chantodo alone and focused on fixing improving other items and sets. However, this is the typical, frustrating, annoying, flavor-of-the-month game development.
It shouldn’t be TOO huge a nerf. I would say -5 GRs is what they should be shooting for? But wasn’t Bazooka more obnoxious than Chantodos? Why not just nerf Bazooka? Unless they have something else in mind.
I mean, you nerf Chant’s, and you buff Rat runs. If you nerfed Chant’s but made another set Wiz competitive, that would have just fine - we’re sick of Chantodos for three straight seasons.
But if I was a gambling man, since the new meta will be Barb/Monk/Wiz/DH, that the three int classes WD/Wiz/Necro will be the next classes to get overhauled, with Barb and DH last. LoN Starpact’s has got to go, and go NOW.
PTR should be online soon, so let’s test the “nerfed” Chantodo set and leave feedback on PTR feedback forum.
I stand firm behind an auto proc build never suppose to be that top strong, I said it several times on PTR but they went live with it anyway so I was like welp guess I’m abandoning every single build/set for Vyr/Chants because what’s the point when an auto proc wave does more damage than any build with Area damage (4-5x dmg mod) besides gimmicky Starpact?
That’s literally where we’ve been the past 2 seasons, sure it was ‘fun’ but it was a diversity killer. Could they have timed this nerf a bit better and done it when our new sets came? Sure! But maybe we’re kind of far out for that so it needed to be dealt with sooner than later.
I would argue that monk comparison they want the new Sweeping Winds set to be the their new speed farm set instead of LoN/Sunwuko bells, and that will be push, we’ll have to see.
Would you really want a double hit to our solo and group metas with zero compensation at all?
Not saying they did this order correctly, but it was likely the easiest thing to do. Nerfing Starpact gonna be a whole new beast, and when they do they better have some new toys for us!
Common guys, we don’t need an auto proc, non casted spell to be doing 400,000 weapon damage (4000x5x20) before any set and gear modifiers, that’s absolutely insane and should have never went through live like that. Makes me wonder why we even bother PTR testing.
Honestly #3 is going to be annoying for us to math, especially if they don’t give us a value at all and just say ‘has been reduced’ but it’s probably the best way to go. Like you said you remove the scaler entirely we’re back to all other sets being subject to archon/chants combo which I don’t want to go back to that. Vyrs should be the only in archon form set, period. Maybe a LoN one too.
Honestly I wish they’d tackle reverse archon in the future too, and just give these builds that kind of power without having to clutch on that.