I don’t know why Blizz has this weird fetish that only 1 class can be on top at a time. Should it be that multiple classes with multiple builds can be on top at the same time, so that players have more freedom of choice while not sacrificing firepower? All well-balanced RPGs are like that, allowing multiple builds on top so that you can choose the one that fits your playstyle.
6 Likes
I totally agree here. It is not a problem, it is even good for d3 if there are many possiblities to do “highend” activities on the same lv with different classes and different builds. The more possibilities there are to chose from the more interesting it becomes, because everyone can chose what play style he likes the most without sever disadvantages in progression.
4 Likes
Wizs were dead but nobody noticed it because of Bazooka. Now this unhealthy build is gone too and what wizs have left?
T16: Chantodo Vyr
Speeds gr: Chantodo Vyr
Push: Chantodo Vyr
You can run speeds with LoD FO but need to invest a lot of time to get the gear and paragon and it’s slow because we have the worst movement skill of the game.
Give us back our power. Let’s us get some fun until you devs fix firebird, DMO and TR.
#ChantWizBack
5 Likes
I doubt that’s gonna happen. They wont bring back AP scaling to pre-nerf state. I can imagine they can buff Vyr’s 6P from 100% per stack to 125 let’s say.
2 Likes
No need to worry guys, LoD Hydra cleared GR150 at 12min a few hours into PTR only, on an average rift, no fishing. It’s freaking OP, probably the S+ tier now.
4 Likes
Don’t know the hydra setup but is it using channeling? Right now, channeling is bugged and doing more dmg.
2 Likes
I wasn’t aware of this bug. After all the only reason to go with Arcane Torrent is the rune with 25% damage reduction.
2 Likes
Agreed they should make Chantodo and Hydra build be able to compete in the same GRs range. And so players who enjoys the playstyle of chantodo plays chantodo and players who enjoys the playstyle with Hydra can play hydra alongside each other. Blizzard needs to stop forcing us to play 1 OP build to climb leaderboards.
7 Likes
This would buff Vyr chantodo a lot and it is an Interesting Idea I agree.
This would just have 2 general Problems. Increasing the set bonus
to 175% would make other sets even more weaker and reversed archon even more of a thing.
The Flaws of Buffing Vyr 6 Piece Bonus
Actually if you Look at 150 stack archon what is quite easy to stack even in bad rifts it is 15000% weapon damage increase, what is quite high. with 175% it would increase all damage by 26250% with reversed archon this would make reverse archon wayyy too strong. This means buffing the numbers of the
6-Piece Vyr setbonus is quite difficult because of set balance. If we consider blizzard just doesnt like to undo the 58% damage nerf in as scaling ( i assume this number is correct, i cant calculate it that well, so my cudos to the excel theorycrafter here)
If we have to buff the 6 piece Vyr Set-bonus we should instead buff the bonus to 150%. This would make archon only 8% weaker than before. ( blizzard like even Numbers ). 22500% damage multiplier would be still a huge problem though because of reversed archon.
Making the set 8% weaker than before would have another small advantage. That way the barb ww rend set would be considerably stronger, but only a little bit. So all the fotm whinners would sit on barb and wizzard class wouldnt have to be bothered by them because the fotm player dont care for class balance. When FOTM-Player are bored of the strongest specc of the game, they start crying for nerfs of it because otherwise they are “forced to play something what is not fun for them”.
with your suggested 175% increase on the other hand or buffing archon by 75%, we would make Chantodo-Vyr exact 1 Gr stronger than pre nerf. We would have the fotm crowd sitting on Chnatodo Vyr again.
I personaly wouldnt like to have all the whiners sitting on wizzard again. They can happy ww in circles and stay at barb.
Because of the problems with reversed archon having too good multiplier and making other sets looks even weaker i guess there should be another way to buff everything for Only Archon itself.
Buffing Archon Skills Instead in the 4 Piece Vyr Bonus
A lot of player suggested buffing the archon skills instead. It wouldnt be a problem. Actually for example our Archon skills are having 604% weapon damage ( Archon Explosion) , Archon desintigration 779% weapon damage and Archon blast 790% weapon damage. Chantodo 4 piece is having 40000% weapon damage every second. even if we Consider the skill damage to be 800%, Chantodo is basicly doing 50 times more damage than our archon skills. Thats why we are basicly doing something around ~ 4% of our totall damage damage with desintegration and our Archon Explosion combinied. The damage of the
Archon-skills is pretty much not relevant. They are only there to stack up the damage for Chantodo.
If we could change the 4 stack bonus from
(4) Archon stacks are increasing your attackspeed, armor and resistance by 1%
to
(4) Archon stacks are increasing your attackspeed, armor and resistance by 1% and are adding 50% weapon damage to all of your archon ablities/Skills.
With 200 archon stacks this would increase Archon Abilities by 10.000% weapon damage. If we consider that we are doing Explosion and desintegration at the same time 10.000% weapon damage increase at 200 stacks is a huge buff. I guess it could be even too strong, because with overlapping stacks and good rifts archon is having around 400 stacks for some duration. I cant consider the scaling ect. it could make archon cappable of 150 Gr 
Somone who is good with numbers have to correct it. But something like that would be something a lot of people wanted.
making archon skills themself relevant again.
The easiest way not to mess up the balance though, would be to just revert the nerf because the numbers have proven to be fine according to blizzard.
#ChantWizBack
4 Likes
Amen brother. thats how you start to fix class builds imo.
2 Likes
I am pretty sure it was 146 with bad time, but to be sure I have to look for microrna tables.
2 Likes
The whole thing is odd to me. If Blizzard feels era 12 barbarians are OK, then why would it make sense to nerf wizards and necros in patch 2.6.7/era 12?
From the worldwide leaderboards.
| GR Tier | Era 11 Wizard | Era 11 Necro | Era 12 Barb |
|---|---|---|---|
| GR 146 and Up | 2 | 1 | 3 |
| GR 145 and Up | 4 | 1 | 4 |
| GR 144 and Up | 5 | 1 | 6 |
| GR 143 and Up | 11 | 2 | 11 |
| GR 142 and Up | 14 | 3 | 19 |
7 Likes
Ya because of this double standard i am quite pissed and really Upset. I mean it is just not fair to nerf a specc because of “game balance” and than keep another specc of the same power untouched. Unnerfed chantodo vyr is basicly of the same power as actuall ww rend. And in our case it wouldnt be even difficult to fix it. I mean i dont know anything about implementation and code changes, but i cant imagine that it is very difficult to put an code in, that already exists in a former patch. We have no communication about this problem.
I mean chantodo is a fast build and good for farming. I dont get why this build should be significant undertuned compared to barb. I would understand at least something when blizzard would tell something like this:
" We are aware that vyr chantodo is significant weaker than rend ww barb. We are aware that old chantodo vyr was of the same power of rend ww barb, but we want that the wizzard feels significant weaker than rend ww barb because "Reason"
I have basicly the personal feeling that even a trainee could exchange the new chantodo with the pre nerfed old chantodo code in 30 minutes if someone would show him in which line you could find the codes. It is basicly copy pasta. Nothing has to be made. it is already there. This whole situation leaves me with a very bad feeling to be honest. I mean when somone tells you that he is too busy for 30 minutes work that can be executed by nearly everyone, it leaves you with a bad feeling.
You have the feeling that either they dont understand their own game, doesnt care at all, or have some secret agenda against certain classes. Tons of wizzard build were nerfed into oblivion in the time of d3. Some of them even into unplayability. Some are massivly undertumed.
I mean it is plain bad whenever there is only 1 specc that is good and other are bad. Further more a class shouldnt have 3-4 gr weaker builds compared to other classes if the speccs were on par and perfectly balanced before. It doesnt make sense from a balance perspective.
Thank god Chantodo vyr is not super weak after the nerfs. But it is signicant weaker for no reason at all.
6 Likes
Just buff Chantodo from 4000% to 7000% to make up for the loss in AS scaling. Changing Chantodo set affects balance much less than changing the whole Vyr set.
5 Likes
I am fine with the unnerf, I however wish they buff many of wizards spells.
3 Likes
Bad Bazooka nerf
I guess the wizzard class has many flaws. It wasnt obvious, due to Bazooka wizzard overshadowed the wizzard flaws by abusing extremly huge modifiers. IN fact the specc is very difficult to execute but nearly everyone is cheating with macros making this specc an OP trash-killer specc.
To nerf bazooka wizzard blizzard have chosen to add 1 sec delay for the damage buffs of the chanelling skills to kick in, which is basicly "balancing with the shotgun". This is making every build more clunky and less fluent to play. It basicly nerfed every half competative build despites FO LOD and archon.
There were a lot of better ways to nerf Bazooka wizzard. For example by lowering the archon damage modifier from 6% to 1% or archon stacks damage increase to work only while in Archon form or even let meteor snapshot the damage while you cast, removing the possibilty of deathwish/sigil to increase meteor damage by 10x (This would result in a super nerf of meteor arcan rune).
Bad Itemisation and Skill balance
Now due to nerfed Bazooka wizzard, it is more obvious and easily to see the weaknesses of the wizzard class. As many mentioned dozends of times before, nearly every specc is dependend of the 10x modifier of the chanelling main and offhand. Just nerfing its effect for non channeling skills, drops every build by 14 Gr lvs. This weakens almost every specc so much that wizzard will be the weakest class in game, despite archon which is not using those skills and FO LOD specc which is not that strong and quite difficult to gear up.
This leads to the Problem, that it is basicly impossible to remove the 10x damagebuff without having the duty to rebalance the entire wizzard class or nerf everything despites archon and LOD FO into oblivion.
What i find quite funny, which is also mentioned by other, is the fact that wizzard-skills arent of Equal Power at all.
For example people mentioned that meteor is picked too often.
Lets just look at this skill. I mean it costs 40 Arcan power but is having 740% weapon damage and 235% weapon damage over 3 seconds. basicly hydra is doing 155% weapon damage base. If we take into consideration that you can increase damage by runes we have something like frost hydra doing 255% weapondamge and meteor casting 7 meteors for 277% weapon damage each.
The skills themself are not on the same page in power. Or we have arcan orb with frozen orb with 950% weapondamage on explosion and another 400% weapondamage while piercing. With its items frozen orb is by far the strongest nuke skill. its only weakness is that it cant by combined with eteched sigil and deathwish due to lack of weapon slots.
Interesting hybrid Speccs because of 3 weapon slots possiblities
In season on the other hand there will be the possibility to get the 10x increased damage which will lead to quite strong Fo Lod builds. Could be even the strongest speccs in power.
There will be some posiblities for hybrid Lod Mammoth hydra/Meteor shower or LoD frost hydra/ FO builds. Those builds will be definitly interesting and maybe even quite strong.
The sad part of this is, that those shenanigans arent possible in non season due to cube limitations.
But i dont See how the set, which let you cast only hydra effectivly can be good without overpowering hydra by a lot. In the current state the hydra set is much less flexible and powerfull than lod. In fact hydra was never ment to be the only damage skill because hydra is basicly a cast and forget skill. But I am ok with blizzard, if they decide to implement it that way.
Reverting Chantodo/Vyr AS scaling nerf by 58% to make Speedfarming and Speedruns possible again ( To be on par with rend/ww speedbarb)
Even archon is after the nerf of AS Scaling by 58%, like 3-4 grs weaker than before. This is very bad to my mind because this build is the best wizzard build for farming and group speeds. Wizzard need to have a speccs that is on par with the strongest speed speccs of other classes. So the nerf of as scaling have to be reverted because barb ww rend specc is as strong as pre nerfed Chantodo wizzard.
One easy step to make the wizzard class at least as good as other classes in some parts of the game is to revert the chant/Vyr nerf. I mean barb is perfectly balanced as it seems and fangskin numbers proof again that the pre nerfed state of chantodo was the right one balance wise.
The need of Changing of a lot of other mechanics and the likelyness to happen
Of course if blizzard want to make a lot of speccs playable on high lv and want to remove the need of channeling as damage buffs, blizzard have tons of work to do. They have to basicly rebalance nearly every wizzard item, specc and a lot of skills.
According to what I see at the moment, this is very unlikly to happen.
So we are trying to show them that at least it would be just and fair to revert the Chantodo/ Vyr nerf. This can be completed in 30 minutes and is very likly to happen if blizzard decides to do it.
6 Likes
If chantodo can’t be reverted, then just buff vyr by adding an additional damage boost that’s for the archon abilities only (honestly I would prefer this over buffing chantodo, but I’m willing to accept both options).
6 Likes
Totally Agree on that. Lets hope that developer will take action. I want a spot in speed meta groups and be able to compete properly and not to be considerable weaker allthough having very good gear and basicly the same paragon. The nerf just doesnt make sense at all now. Maybe month before but not any longer.
7 Likes
Not being a Wizard expert I don’t know how well it would work, but I think the better way to break Bazooka is to kill the Swami. Move to Archon stack duration to Vyr’s.
Leave the channeling items alone, especially Mantle. Given an average channeling time of 5 to 10 seconds, a 1 second delay is a 10-20% nerf to Tal’s and FB Meteor Shower. Other builds like LoN/LoD or Nat’s Rapidfire and Firebats get hit with the same nerf. A delay of 1 sec can also prove fatal to Flurry Monks who need the instant DR at higher GR.
5 Likes
I’m guessing they won’t do anything to this build for 2.6.8 because they want to highlight the new hydra set.
3 Likes