Don’t use the ‘people clear x rift within two days of season’ or whatever argument. This season’s seasonal buff is insane for carrying higher than a build is capable of, so comparing it with what other seasons did isn’t really the same.
2 Likes
Yes, they should bring back the Chantodo too since Barbarian, Crusader and Monk are dominating the seasonal leaderboard so hard.
5 Likes
Because some people think everything is a zero sum game, a build on top means a build pushed backward. Lol is that how it’s supposed to work?
I know Barb underperforms for years, and it should be on top again, but what’s the point of pushing other builds down? Bring Barb to the same level as Wiz is the right thing, but make Barb the sole winner is stupid.
4 Likes
If current Barb and monk are fine, then pre-nerf chantodo was fine. I don’t see how you could deny this.
4 Likes
Blizzard stated to justify the nerf that their design goal was 141 with para 10.000 and that vyr wizzard was too strong achieving 145/146 clears. So nerfing it potential to 142 was fine. Some month later builds of monks and barbs that are clearing 145/146 are totally fine and no balance problem at all.
Such behavior is really inconsistent. something cant be for 2 classes “fine” but for wizzards “too strong” at the same time. That is unjustifable double standard and a descrimination of all wizzard player. I am in fact very pissed because blizzard is either thinking that all wizzard player are st u p i d or cant remeber what they were writing 3 month earlier to justify their nerfs.
Only fair solution is to unnerf Chantodo wizzard.
#ChantWizBack
7 Likes
I understand the “core” of your statement because what he is writing is bluntly ignorant , highly selfish and not constructive at all.
The way you are writing it is against the forum rules.
I would edit the post because your text can get you in serious trouble.
Furthermore I have to report you because it is not even a harsh statement, it is just a death wish in real life.
#ChantWizBack
3 Likes
I’m actually pleased that someone revived this thread.
Reverting Chantodo to pre-nerf status puts it back on par with current Barbs, and where I expect post-stutter Crusaders to be.
5 Likes
Thank you for creating this place to beeing able to discuss the issue with chantodo. And I am very happy that fangskin revived the original Thread.
After several month it is pretty clear that the chantodo nerf was unneeded.
I for example care for build diversity and i like the fast archon gameplay.
I am sure that i am not the only wizzard that liked to play archon wizzard or like to have the possiblity to be as fast and efficient as other classes.
Even if the new hydra set and gameplay wont be weak, it is not a reason to keep Archon weak. The more viable ways to play the game effective the wizzard have, the better for our class/ for the game.
Fangskin for example suggested that it will be balance wise a little bit under the value where barb actually is. So unnerfed chantodo will be totally fine.
I Just cant get it why it was nerfed in the first place.
Especialy people telling me that Blizzard “fixed” an “unintented mechanic”
are triggering me the most. The attack speed scaling of Chantodo was cut by 4/7. I mean How on earth is lowering the attack speed scaling by 4/7 is in any world fixing an unintend mechanic. I dont wanna know how much outrage we would get by barbs if Blizzard fix an uninteded mechanic of rend by lowering the scaling of rend with critdamage by 4/7 , resulting in lowering barb by 3-4 gr . It would be quite funny to see their reaction by mentioning that it was “just a bug fix” because critdamage was scaling with rend damage much better than expected 
You can call the messuares which lowered the power of Chantodo vyr how you want, it was an unjustified nerf of a well balanced set. Only fair solution is to unnerf.
I hope this thread will get enough help to stick arround that blizzard recognize the issue that the chantodo wizzard nerf have to go to restore class balance and build diversity
#ChantWizBack
6 Likes
With Bazooka about to take a stake through the heart, and the coming 20% nerf to channeling builds Wizards as a class are going to be severely handicapped with this patch.
The new set is unproven, and may or may not be a high performer. Vyr’s / Chantodo’s IS a proven build that would keep Wizards on par with the classes buffed with 2.6.7
4 Likes
I don’t know why Blizz has this weird fetish that only 1 class can be on top at a time. Should it be that multiple classes with multiple builds can be on top at the same time, so that players have more freedom of choice while not sacrificing firepower? All well-balanced RPGs are like that, allowing multiple builds on top so that you can choose the one that fits your playstyle.
6 Likes
I totally agree here. It is not a problem, it is even good for d3 if there are many possiblities to do “highend” activities on the same lv with different classes and different builds. The more possibilities there are to chose from the more interesting it becomes, because everyone can chose what play style he likes the most without sever disadvantages in progression.
4 Likes
Wizs were dead but nobody noticed it because of Bazooka. Now this unhealthy build is gone too and what wizs have left?
T16: Chantodo Vyr
Speeds gr: Chantodo Vyr
Push: Chantodo Vyr
You can run speeds with LoD FO but need to invest a lot of time to get the gear and paragon and it’s slow because we have the worst movement skill of the game.
Give us back our power. Let’s us get some fun until you devs fix firebird, DMO and TR.
#ChantWizBack
5 Likes
I doubt that’s gonna happen. They wont bring back AP scaling to pre-nerf state. I can imagine they can buff Vyr’s 6P from 100% per stack to 125 let’s say.
2 Likes
No need to worry guys, LoD Hydra cleared GR150 at 12min a few hours into PTR only, on an average rift, no fishing. It’s freaking OP, probably the S+ tier now.
4 Likes
Don’t know the hydra setup but is it using channeling? Right now, channeling is bugged and doing more dmg.
2 Likes
I wasn’t aware of this bug. After all the only reason to go with Arcane Torrent is the rune with 25% damage reduction.
2 Likes
Agreed they should make Chantodo and Hydra build be able to compete in the same GRs range. And so players who enjoys the playstyle of chantodo plays chantodo and players who enjoys the playstyle with Hydra can play hydra alongside each other. Blizzard needs to stop forcing us to play 1 OP build to climb leaderboards.
7 Likes
This would buff Vyr chantodo a lot and it is an Interesting Idea I agree.
This would just have 2 general Problems. Increasing the set bonus
to 175% would make other sets even more weaker and reversed archon even more of a thing.
The Flaws of Buffing Vyr 6 Piece Bonus
Actually if you Look at 150 stack archon what is quite easy to stack even in bad rifts it is 15000% weapon damage increase, what is quite high. with 175% it would increase all damage by 26250% with reversed archon this would make reverse archon wayyy too strong. This means buffing the numbers of the
6-Piece Vyr setbonus is quite difficult because of set balance. If we consider blizzard just doesnt like to undo the 58% damage nerf in as scaling ( i assume this number is correct, i cant calculate it that well, so my cudos to the excel theorycrafter here)
If we have to buff the 6 piece Vyr Set-bonus we should instead buff the bonus to 150%. This would make archon only 8% weaker than before. ( blizzard like even Numbers ). 22500% damage multiplier would be still a huge problem though because of reversed archon.
Making the set 8% weaker than before would have another small advantage. That way the barb ww rend set would be considerably stronger, but only a little bit. So all the fotm whinners would sit on barb and wizzard class wouldnt have to be bothered by them because the fotm player dont care for class balance. When FOTM-Player are bored of the strongest specc of the game, they start crying for nerfs of it because otherwise they are “forced to play something what is not fun for them”.
with your suggested 175% increase on the other hand or buffing archon by 75%, we would make Chantodo-Vyr exact 1 Gr stronger than pre nerf. We would have the fotm crowd sitting on Chnatodo Vyr again.
I personaly wouldnt like to have all the whiners sitting on wizzard again. They can happy ww in circles and stay at barb.
Because of the problems with reversed archon having too good multiplier and making other sets looks even weaker i guess there should be another way to buff everything for Only Archon itself.
Buffing Archon Skills Instead in the 4 Piece Vyr Bonus
A lot of player suggested buffing the archon skills instead. It wouldnt be a problem. Actually for example our Archon skills are having 604% weapon damage ( Archon Explosion) , Archon desintigration 779% weapon damage and Archon blast 790% weapon damage. Chantodo 4 piece is having 40000% weapon damage every second. even if we Consider the skill damage to be 800%, Chantodo is basicly doing 50 times more damage than our archon skills. Thats why we are basicly doing something around ~ 4% of our totall damage damage with desintegration and our Archon Explosion combinied. The damage of the
Archon-skills is pretty much not relevant. They are only there to stack up the damage for Chantodo.
If we could change the 4 stack bonus from
(4) Archon stacks are increasing your attackspeed, armor and resistance by 1%
to
(4) Archon stacks are increasing your attackspeed, armor and resistance by 1% and are adding 50% weapon damage to all of your archon ablities/Skills.
With 200 archon stacks this would increase Archon Abilities by 10.000% weapon damage. If we consider that we are doing Explosion and desintegration at the same time 10.000% weapon damage increase at 200 stacks is a huge buff. I guess it could be even too strong, because with overlapping stacks and good rifts archon is having around 400 stacks for some duration. I cant consider the scaling ect. it could make archon cappable of 150 Gr
Somone who is good with numbers have to correct it. But something like that would be something a lot of people wanted.
making archon skills themself relevant again.
The easiest way not to mess up the balance though, would be to just revert the nerf because the numbers have proven to be fine according to blizzard.
#ChantWizBack
4 Likes
Amen brother. thats how you start to fix class builds imo.
2 Likes
I am pretty sure it was 146 with bad time, but to be sure I have to look for microrna tables.
2 Likes