Out of curiosity, how do you come to that conclusion?
Multiple classes have cleared 150, Rend Barb has never been one them?
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That is a very good question. I am talking purely from a casual gameplay perspective here. Obviously, crusaders were stronger than barb in top end push (probably still is to this day), but as soon as you step out of the pushing zone, crusaders tend to fall, because of the gameplay. Same for WD, and now (maybe ?) for DH.
What I’m trying to say is, if you give an average player a fully decked out barb vs any other class, the barb should clear the highest grift consistently. Well, maybe nowadays it’s DH, I haven’t seen enough DH to tell you for sure. But reality is, botters use WW/Rend during the night for a reason.
Even back then, Vyr was not the best pushing build, it was bazooka. Hence why I said “greater rift farming build”.
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Ah ok, you mean in terms of speed builds basically.
The new DH set may overtake it in that regard. It’s very quick moving if you can keep your stacks up
I’m so sick of people telling me how “easy” it is to get 2000 paragon in season just because they spent 6-12h a day every day playing META builds or in 4 man META groups and than have the nerve to tell you that you suck if you can’t do the same thing, cause you either have a family, kids, real job or just physically can’t play the game for more than 2-3h straight, cause of health conditions or whatever the reason might be and can’t spend all day long playing a video game…
Gawd their ignorance is just killing me… 
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Preaching to the choir my friend. I completely agree with you. And what kills me is the people throwing that crap around will never understand the anguish of act 2 inferno as a barb.
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Oof. Between Kik’s posts and arguing with folks on Next Door about how they need to wear their dang masks and why Covid-19 should not be compared with the flu, it’s barely noon and I’m already tuckered out.
This is the core of your argument, and to be honest, it sucks. You assume that X number of players only play what is strong and efficient, and even if that’s true, it doesn’t mean anything. Some folks will like the build and stick with it. Some folk will use it to gear other builds. Some folk will only dabble in it for–gasp–the fun that comes from feeling powerful. Some folks–me, for instance–won’t even bother with it.
Balance is not the end-all, be-all for a game like Diablo III. Regardless, you would achieve it through nerfs, and that will always–always–make the game less fun, less enjoyable for some (perhaps many) people. Which leads me to this turd:
There has always been a difference. I have urged people to engage their class communities to advocate for buffs. Get all builds more or less on par within a class, increase build diversity, provide more options for player engagement. Balance, whether around GR 140 or 150 was long ago blown out of the water. There’s no putting the genie back in the bottle. So focus on what’s important–having fun–and don’t worry about the rest.
That’s a far cry from “Nerf, nerf, nerf” for some mythical state of balance that doesn’t really matter.
Oh man. This kinda nonsense? Really?
140 is well beyond my Paragon, especially considering I barely play the game anymore. Diablo III can be a fun game, but let’s be honest: This is not a game most people should take seriously. It’s sole competitive format–Greater Rifts–are heavily RNG dependent and rely on fishing for relatively static conditions that facilitate clears.
But your jab at me is just thinly veiled elitism. Casual players aren’t plowing 145 or 140 or even 135. Read through the Rend guide and you’ll see tons of posts celebrating amazing clears–some by players who had never touched a Barb before Season 20!
That’s not because the game caters to “casuals.” It’s because the Season theme gave them a little extra juice and they worked at it. That’s clearly not good enough for you. Too bad.
Elitism at its finest. Luckily, Blizzard doesn’t do things that way.
You seem to want some measure of skill and talent that will distinguish you above others. The game already provides that, but even if other players catch up, WHO CARES?
You’re playing, I assume, to have fun, to enjoy a sense of personal accomplishment, to engage meaningfully with the game’s mechanics. Right? Well, so is everyone else. The difference between them and you is that you seem to get your kicks out of telling others how they should compare to you and in tearing down what they find enjoyable.
Ugh. Just replying to your posts makes me need a shower and a stiff drink.
Glad to see plenty of other folks taking your nonsense to task. Y’all keep it up.
In conclusion:
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No, Kikaha. Bad.
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Wear your masks in public and don’t go to crowded places.
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Sanitize, sanitize, sanitize.
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So did Blizzard. The D3 developers stated that they will balance class-specific sets using both nerfs and buffs. Their justification is good game design.
https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/23290575/developer-insights-balancing-class-set-design-1-28-2020
I once rolled up the windows and locked them in my car while my wife was sitting next to me. I proceeded to rip a silent but ever so deadly fart. My intention was also good game design and in my opinion it was great, however my wife would very much so disagree.
Long story short you can call a fart a beautiful trill but lets be honest its still just a fart!
I prefer Blizzard’s philosophy on game design.
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Now don’t get me wrong I enjoy the game for what it is. But with that said it could have been so much better. But they put the game together based on the rmah and without that it’s just a pinata full of trash. Now I hated the rmah and the ptw mentality it promoted but without a complete base game overhaul, never gonna happen, this game will be broken at it’s core.
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As far as getting to 2k paragon is concerned, it takes 30 to 50 hours of game time. Over 3 months, that’s less than an hour a day. I personnally think if you can’t commit that much time to a game, not even over 3 months but for YEARS now, non season included, maybe you don’t really need to try to shape the meta up, because by definition, you don’t play that meta.
My point is that for folks #1 - they like the build as a whole, so even if it’s nerfed a bit (but still powerful, of course), they’ll still like it
for folks #2 - instead of relying on it to gear their favorite set (if they even bother), they can directly go to their favorite set, without having to use the middleman of a set that is OP in order to play their favorite build. And for folks #3, well, they can play any build they want because they are all as powerful as eachother.
As you said, this can be reached by either buffing all other sets or nerfing the more powerful ones. However, because of the limitation of gr150 max, I don’t like the idea of everything being 150-viable because it means the pushing is limited to time attack and I - and a lot of other players, those that are actually concerned by it - don’t like time attack. Hence why I’d rather see everything balanced around 140 instead.
It most definitely is not beyond your paragon, 150 was cleared last patch with 4500 paragon. You just don’t want to invest the time in grinding the gear and rift needed, but it is definitely possible.
Lastly, I will say it again, there is nothing wrong with being a casual, having a family, playing other games, etc. I play D3 a lot (way too much I’d say), so I feel like I know what I’m talking about.
I don’t have a family (well, no children let’s say), so I don’t go around telling people how they should educate their children. I play hearthstone every once in a while, yet I am not on the HS forums telling the devs what they should buff or nerf. See my point ?
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I mean, D2 is a game where you get to max level / gear and stop playing. I don’t like that. I don’t want that for d3. If you do, that’s fine, we have a different opinion then.
I would never do that, because that’s not what I enjoy to do, and if that’s what you enjoy, maybe D3 isn’t the game for you because obviously it wasn’t designed in that way. Everything is shared between characters, it is basically designed in a way that you can switch around, and do whatever with one character, then go back, use armory to switch, etc.
Well, if that’s the kind of balance needed in end game, yes. I don’t see that as an issue, because your enjoyment of the game shouldn’t be based around the level you clear but how you clear that level. Again, time attacking is not the same “how you clear” than grift pushing. If they removed the greater rift cap, sure 150, 160. Don’t care. Because I can still enjoy the process of pushing levels as opposed to time attacking. But I keep repeating it and it keeps getting ignored.
Exactly, so why do you want also solo to do it ? It’s already super boring in 4 players. At least, it brings variety, if it’s only possible in groups.
As to how far I can go with a non meta build, I still have 2 roland top12 clears when it wasn’t the meta build, but just a runner up. And an LTK clear as well, although not as high rank (maybe top 30 instead). But at least those builds were “close enough”, nowadays, nothing comes close to AoV crusader or TR monk for example.
Back when I played D&D, we had a saying: “If you don’t want your players using it, don’t put it in the game.”
I feel the same rings true for content, even in games like this. Putting something in the game -even a difficulty level- that you want to specifically prevent anyone from ever reaching…is pointless. If it should never be achievable, then there is no purpose behind it.
Now to wait for 400 people to try steamrolling me into changing my mind. You can try, but it won’t work.
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Man I miss those days. So many fond memories all juiced up on mountain dew killing myself with catastrophic critical fails. Makes me want to put a local group together and wreak havoc on the innocent NPC’s.
Elitism at its finest. You do not get to decide what or how anyone else enjoys the game. Telling people that how they enjoy the game is wrong is ……plain stupid. No other way to put it.
So maybe don’t go around telling people how to enjoy the game either.
How does only being able to a thing one way, in a group, give it variety?
Words to live by
Also words to live by. Practice what you preach and please stop contradicting yourself its painful to watch.
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The original design for GR’s does not involve having a limit … Having a cap in GR’s is the same as putting a cap in your life … no one wants to die, the pleasure is in living, not in “finishing” your life … Furthermore, what we have is a CLASSIFICATION TABLE and not a finish line.
The 4P game is simply laughable, and I still see some wanting a class to be able to do 150 SOLO?
The limit should be 140-143 solo for 10k, so that even with 20k we still have a safety margin for solo.
What…I can’t…help me…brain…broken
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It is not broken, it probably has a “cap”. 
So you could not discern the context, or perhaps you purposely misrepresented the context to be more convenient for you.
Not quite. You can accomplish it that way provided you play the correct, most efficient way–in decent meta (or good off-meta) groups that maximize their XP gains. But for many players–and this is key–that’s not very fun.
When it comes to the core game loop in Diablo III, it all boils down to collecting keys and mats, refining gear, and pushing solo or group. That last part, the pushes, are essentially time attacks, which means in order to get the most chances at clearing a higher tier, you need to maximize your time in GRs, which means being more efficient in farming keys and mats, etc, etc. In other words, in Diablo III, efficiency plays a major role in whether you succeed or fail at the sole end-game activity: pushing GRs.
Put simply, there’s a right and wrong way to play D3 if you want to maximize your chances for success, but many players find the trapping of that optimization stultifyingly boring. Many players are put off by the prescriptive and linear methods of optimization, and many players find the game’s multiplayer interface insufficient to do it without significant frustration.
When I played a lot of D3, I never had trouble getting into a top-tier group because I made a name for myself as an excellent zBarb and most of my in-game friends were top 10 players. Much of that stemmed from my presence in the community here. Many other players aren’t willing to jump through so many hoops, and these days, neither am I.
That doesn’t mean, though, that players in those situations shouldn’t have a say in the meta. If anything, they should have a say, because they’re exactly who can tell us how to make it more accessible, less frustrating.
No, because I’m only 2.4K Paragon and I never play Season. But the game is simply too repetitive and boring to bother grinding in groups.
No one–literally no one–in this thread is advocating for 150s solo. It can be done, of course, and by more than one class, and there’s no putting that cat back in the hat. Right now, clears at or near 150 require insane Paragon, gem levels, gear, and time-consuming fishing; they’re also outliers, rare even within the scope of their class potential. Builds that crush 150 with ease get nerfed–that much is clear, and while I’m still not a fan of that (because, let’s face it, this is D3, a game chock full of bots, THUD, RNG-based competition, and broken mechanics), I can at least see where the devs are aiming. But a class that can reach 150 solo only as the most extreme outlier?
Who flipping cares?
So the title of this topic and comment like “omg if they nerf this build will end the” “” “” fun “” “” of HD’s, are they some kind of figure of speech?
Paragon that will be standard in some time. The point is that, even with 20k, we shouldn’t hit a cap …
Just go up a little bit in the comments, you will see that there are (MANY) players who care about that.
But of course … Apparently Blizz is taking a direction towards casual players … Buff nonsense, builds that can complete on their own the maximum level of this game, extremely OP season themes …
I just say that, this path is very bad for the game, it will dramatically decrease its longevity.