Well, I’ve deliberately stayed out of this thread since it turned into some free speech / hate speech debate, but kindly stop impugning my character just because I don’t think Blizzard should waste time / resources implementing SSF.
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All those “nerf it” guys doesnt understand, that not many players achieve even 2k paragon in the season, before burn out. And those nerf are targeted against those casual players, not “pros” or streamers.
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If you can’t be bothered to get 2000 paragon in a season (it takes a week these days, come on), you don’t deserve a voice in the balancing of the meta game because you clearly don’t play said meta game for more than a couple hours every 3 months.
And, obviously, saying “they only nerf for casuals but not for high end push” is ridiculous. Why would nerfing, idk, Hunter’s wrath to do only 100% damage instead of 200% (for example) would impact the average player more than the “hardcore” player ? They’re playing the same build, the main difference is one knows how to play and is committed while the other isn’t.
One of the proposed nerf to rend barb was to remove Amber’s pride buff to non-WW-applies rends, so as to nerf the area damage values of the barb. This would have literally 0 impact on casual play.
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Rather than knock something down lets build everything else up
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Kikaha, you dont understand one thing, that this game is not competetive. Its also played by people like me, who has family and kids like me and find it not fun to play destroyed builds by people who think that top 1000 will have their gaming lives destroyed.
Many People play this game for fun and are excited when something has power even for them, when they dont have to spend weeks farming same content over and over again just to reach gr 130.
Peace
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You have an obscenely unrealistic take of how powerful the top end builds are and how that translates into players ability to take those builds to the top.
No casual player was decimating 140’s, much less clearing 150, on pre-pre-pre-nerf Valor Crusader. And it certainly isn’t happening 3 nerfs later. Nor is it happening on other “OP” builds.
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If by pre-pre-pre nerf you mean “infinite stacks Shield of fury”, I think you vastly under estimate how strong that build was. It was up for less than a week and 15 players cleared a 150 in less than 10 minutes.
Either way, my point is exactly that no casual players should ever reach 140. It should be reserved to 10k+ players.
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Yes, exactly. Casuals were absolutely not clearing 140’s even with the most absurd build the game has ever seen.
You’ll be glad to know that casuals still aren’t clearing 140’s, nor are they decimating 130’s.
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So what your saying is even though I bought the game just like you I should keep my mouth shut just because I have a life outside of d3 and only play 3-4 hours a week? I think you have a very narrow view on life and just might need a break, go fishing or hiking and get some perspective.
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It’s somewhat more complicated than that. People who invest the time want some benefit out of it. If you put in more hours at your job, you would expect a larger check, no? But if you don’t put in those hours…you can’t reasonably believe that you’ll get paid more.
Casual players are crapped on a lot in this community; that’s a fact. But I don’t believe that necessarily warrants a blank check. If you want higher levels, you have to grind for them. Well…or cheat, like the botters and whatnot. But that’s another issue.
With that said, I think the idea of doing whatever necessary to make < CENSORED > certain no one ever reaches 150 is factually insane. If it becomes mathematically impossible (which seems to be their goal), then there is no reason to have it in the game. Remove it. Make it 140. Oh, but wait…because now it’s “not supposed to be possible” for 140 as well. Remove that, too. Now 130 isn’t “supposed to be possible”.
I don’t have to continue, do i?
Casuals such as myself are not crushing 150 or even 140. I’ve owned this game from day one and spent many hours getting roflstomped on nightmare. On non season I’m at 2700ish paragon highest clear is 130 on barb. I don’t play other classes very often. And most players still active in this game are just like me. I have an opinion and will voice it if I choose too regardless of the time invested in this game. Simply because I enjoy it and want others to do so as well. I do not believe in nerfing classes to fit what the Karen’s believe to be some mystical balance. “Balance” in this game is just not possible there are way too many variables and there will always be a top build/class. It’s time people accept it and move on to just enjoying the game or find something else.
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Well, this may come as a bit of a shock, but…I agree with you.
“Balance” does not mean the same thing to our corporate overlords as it does to us. What it means to us is that every class has a viable push build, a viable speedrun build, etc. For some, it even means that every class has equal power overall, and that no one should be out in front, regardless of circumstances.
To them, it means selecting a point which is designated unreachable, and destroying anything which threatens to touch it. Players bedamned, builds bedamned, investment bedamned, that line in the sand will not be crossed, because…well, because. We don’t think it should be, regardless of what clever builds you come up with, or how fiercely determined you are to get there.
Part of the reason I never make it far into seasons is the fact I cannot choose. I play all classes. I know that puts me in the minority, but I also feel it uniquely qualifies me to speak about objective fairness and balance. There is not one class I favor so far above the others that I want to see any given one suffer.
The idea of actual, real balance is possible…if it could be achieved by reading the actual power limits of each class, and not just which ones cheated their way to the top each season. But that’s not where we are, now. Where we are now is a shortcut to “grading on a curve”, where the data is intentionally skewed until an ideal ratio of pass-middle-fail is reached.
What I’m saying is I have a friend who played the game 2 years ago and has more paragon than you. I don’t think he should have a say in the meta, he hardly plays the game.
Look, I did tennis for fun for a while. But I don’t expect to be able to give my opinion on what the rules of tennis should be.
Initially, greater rift were supposed to be that infinitely scaling end game. No matter how much you perfected you gear, you could always challenge yourself with a more difficult greater rift. Because of technical limitations, 150 is the max. Well, then in order to be able to always challenge yourself with a more difficult grift level, you should never reach 150 - because as soon as you reach it, it becomes a game of who will clear 150 the fastest, as opposed as who clears the greater rift level above the other.
If they remove the grift cap, by all means, buff all the builds to 150, 160, 2500 I don’t care. I just don’t want anyone to have to push for time as opposed to push for level. Most of the players I have talked to don’t like time attacking. Well, I think it’s too late to nerf group grifts levels, 150 is now a staple, and so is time attacking. I think there is still hope for solo play, hence why I hope they keep it alive.
What I don’t understand is why are people so keen on clearing ever so higher. Like, there is technically no difference between pushing gr130 and 140, if not the numbers you deal. What I hope is that all builds in the game get to 130/140 (depending on paragon and player skill), but none trump all the others and do 150, because then there is no point to play that other build. My favorite crusader build is Roland, but there is no way I would ever play it compared to AoV, because AoV can still easily clear 140 to this day, and I’ll have a more difficult time clearing 130 with Roland than 140 with AoV. Do I want to see Roland buffed ? Yes, of course. Do I want to see AoV nerfed ? Also yes. Do I want to see Roland stronger than AoV ? No.
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Because nerfing a set or item or build can destroy its playablity and fun factor, not just its ability to deal damage. Thats the thing you still cant understand. For example Chantodo Vyrs - destroyed. You cant buff stuff, and then take it away from players. This will force people to go away, because they dont find it fun, even tho they cant clear gr100. They feel cheated on and dissapointed.
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But Vyr gameplay hasn’t changed whatsoever, it’s exactly the same build and same gameplay, just a few tiers lower. You don’t have “less fun” because the build was nerfed, you just feel entitled to play something that was too strong (at the time) and, IMO a very “Karen” thing to do (to go back to the roots of this thread) is to whine about it. Well yeah, the build was nerfed so you were doing above what was expected of you at your paragon, gear and skill level. You are now back to what is supposed to be your grift cap, deal with it.
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With all due respect you should descend from The Olymp and watch ordinary players, how they were OP with VyrChantodo. They were not.
This discussion is all about elitist players fighting for something, that bottom 10k or 100k players dont have a need for.
I dont care if i clear 110 or 145 or if 90 will become a new standard of highend pushing instead of 150. I just want enjoy my game without freakin nerfs to everything, what is fun now.
They by definition were, because the build was OP and was too strong - at any level.
At the time, Vyr was the best greater rift farming build (as is WW/rend today BTW), and people were playing that build only because it was. Some probably liked playing this build, but I’m sure plenty of casuals just played the build “because it’s the strongest”. In my opinion, this is not the right reason to be playing a build. Then the build was nerfed, and ideally no other build cough barb cough would have taken its place as “the best build in the game”. Then players could have chosen their build purely based on what they want to play, as opposed to “what is the FotM”.
Imagine playing League of legends and choosing a hero not because you like playing it but because all the tier lists mention it as “the best hero to play”. Does it sound like a good game balance ? So what is the next play, buff all heroes to be on par with that hero, or nerf that single hero ?
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Im out, i would get banned from forums.
No offense but if your only argument is to insult the other guy, maybe your arguments are weak.
Mark Twain said “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".
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