Apples, oranges, what’s the difference? Greater effort will be rewarded. That isn’t the issue here. With the same amount of effort a reasonably competent group of four will far outperform four reasonably competent solo players combined in the same amount of time. It’s a well established fact. You can argue if it should be true or not but it is true.
And thats intended. The group experience bonus isnt the problem. Power in numbers is the reason. 4 players are stronger than 1. Thats how things works and obv they wanna keep it that way. Ppl compare themselves to ppl who got higher paragon who put alot more effort and blame it on group play. Its just delusional, yes group is more efficient but a 1k paragon wouldnt be 5k if they were in group. Thats just far off from the truth still alot of ppl believe that even though there are calculators which proves them wrong.
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If the same effort has exponentially higher rewards in group than solo, it’s not a problem of effort…
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Significantly. Not exponentially.
Exponentially.
Groups can do higher rifts at the same or higher speed, this means they can go to even higher rifts sooner than any solo player.
Sure, the increase in this power disparity will get to a plateau where it tends to flatten because of diminishing returns, but in terms of time to get anywhere it will still be exponential.
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If it was exponential groups would be hitting 10k paragon in a week with a power of two. XP increase required per paragon level isn’t even exponential.
I never understood why people care so much for meaningless stuff like leaderboards.
If u 1k paragon and u cry about that u cant compete with a 5k player its about effort. As my calculation show u be 3.5k+ paragon as solo if u put the same amount of effort as the 5k player in group. A 3.5k paragon cant compete with a 5k? Its a difference yes but not as much as ppl seem to think.
I even compare lower end solo player with high end group players. In reality a decent DH would speed around 105-110 and it might even be higher. Wudi expect it to be 113 at 2.5k paragon gotta see where it lands but 105+ shouldnt be hard at all to reach.
Paragon gets slower the higher u go so it will take longer before u can speed a tier higher than it took early on also at higher end u wont rly get any signifact upgrades on gears.
I did compare 100 vs 120 speeds. Aka “casual” solo player at lower end vs a HIGH END rat team. 120 in s23 is about 130 in s22 or atleast 127+ since necro got 7 tier nerf which is something most teams never reach ppl who did that was like 8k-10k paragon. Getting to 8k paragon will be ALOT slower this season for ratrunners. To make it clear my calculations are very extreme in favour of group players in reality group players will be closer to a solo player if i add real number instead of 120 gr which i expect ppl to do at higher paragon.
Again ppl who are at 1k paragon and complain about 5k players and think its only cause they play in group are just lying to themselves. Not saying its no difference but if u put effort u will reach 3.5k+ as solo with same effort. Thats should put things in perspective at what difference we looking at. Most ppl seem to agree that it should be beneficial to play in group and its the logical approach since having active groups playing a game attracts ppl. Multiplayer games attract ppl, thats how it is nowadays. If group play were dead, d3 would have lost alot more players than u think.
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As I said, it will reach a diminishing returns plateau, but at least for the beginning of the season it is exponential.
You can read posts of those who say it’s too easy to complete the season journey to guardian because they can do it in 8 hours.
Strangely enough you keep ignoring experience of people playing the actual game in favour of your “calculations”.
How does that prevent a discussion on normalizing the absurd bonuses of multiplayer compared to solo?
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Competitive gaming, nuff said. Same reason why people like Sports. Its more fun to be winner than loser. Also everybody wants to be winner’s friend. Thats actually why I think Automatically Created Guilds is the way to go, best players should run the Guilds. Top players can form guilds, the game keep sending the players there, they can go or leave, thats my vision.
I’m fairly confident Blizz will introduce custom emanate items to bridge the gap a little bit more.
Just need to wait a couple months…
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That’s got bugger all to do with grouping. The first few hundred paragon are easy any way you slice it. Guardian is also easy. That’s power creep not grouping.
There is not an exponential difference between solo and grouping XP gain.
Its not experience, they bring up their opinion and blaming their lack on paragon on things rather than look at themselves and figure out what they doing wrong. There are ppl with experience who tell them they are wrong.
I back it up with numbers from paragon calculators. U just deny it and blame it on the game. PPl complain they get 1k paragon in a season i got 1.3k in the first days (2-3days?) in this season as solo only. Do i have some extra bonus aswell which only applies to me or did i bot all day?
What experience they got? Or u saying i played more in those 2-3 days than they did during the whole season? Getting 1k paragon is so fast and ez if u know what u are doing. Ofc ppl who dont know will think its alot. That doesnt make them right. Ppl who compare themselves with 5k paragon and blaming it on the group bonus when they didnt even put 3% of the 5k players effort. I put it up on a calculator and showed the numbers, the calculator is objective and doesnt take one side. I do not listen to the ppl who u claim to have “experience”, i know by fact that 1k paragon solo player havnt put even close to the effort a 5k paragon person had. Ppl who believes that are lacking experience.
Its the common approach in most games. The “absurd” bonus u talking about isnt half as huge as ppl make it to be. Yes there is a difference and i alrdy explained why its a difference. Its a logical and different from PoE where they go for another niche.
Ppl compare low effort, low skilled, low knowledge and low efficient solo players with high end group players.
U compare the 2 extremes which gives it a false picture of the issue.
Also there is no reason for solo players to compare themselves to group players as there is no reason for high end players to compare themselves to casuals.
Ofc there is some ppl who suffer from narcissism. Solo players have the choice to play in groups to be optimal. Groups being the optimal way isnt something new in gaming i would even say its a requirement in some cases. Playing in group isnt enough to be optimal, u still have to build certain characters in certain ways. And on top of that u have to maximise the way u play to get the most out of it. Thats the price u have to pay to be optimal and some ppl like it that way, whats the point if ppl dont need to put any effort into things?
D3 being a online game only should give u a hint about which direction they want to go.
I do understand if ppl compete with other solo only players or ppl around same paragon. I do not understand why casuals wanna compete with dedicated players. There is no challenge.
Adding a solo mode only for solo players to compete seem to be the best option. However narcissist ppl will still find ways to blame it on other things and will never be happy.
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We are playing the same game. Some people actually have a life, and work, and children, and partners and can’t devote 18 hours a day to a silly game. Some of us do have the time, but refuse to waste that much time on a silly game as we have better and more meaningful things to do in life.
You failed to get my point - I’m not saying that a dedicated and efficient solo player putting a LOT of hours into the game can’t get to 3 or even 3.5k paragon - they can. I am saying that group players, even casuals, will hit that paragon limit MUCH FASTER.
A game should test One’s skill and not how many hours they invest in the game. Time ≠ skill.
Correct.
and they’re doing it in a group…everything is easier in a group…
Group players will NEVER admit that they have a massive advantage over solo players. Doing so would give a reason to Blizzard to balance it all…and group players would then lose most if not all of their advantage and struggle in solo LB pushes wink wink.
Solo causal gamers, caring about Group Content in ONline Games … /facepalm
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Actually time is a factor in skill. The more you do something the better you become at it up to a point and most skills are perishable. Then there’s the time spent accumulating the knowledge necessary to really understand a game and keeping up with the changes. Being casual really limits your potential. I’m ok with that.
So do i. Again i said its fast if u know what u doing. I dont need 18h a day to get 1.3k in 2-3 days. Maybe it take that much time for u. But for me not even close.
As i said some ppl will always blame it on something and have excuses. So u saying i play more in 2-3 days than u did during the whole season? Since i got higher paragon in that time than u got during the whole season?
I did not fail to see your point. Your point is about u cant compete with group players bringing up your paragon and compare it with much higher paragon players.
It test their skill. They are better making use of the time they got. Also they got the knowledge about how to maximize their experience gain. And they do it not just talk about how skilled they are. If u wanna test your skill compare it with the ppl around your paragon. U assume group players are bad and u are better and the only reason they higher paragon is since they got everything for free.
U can play in group aswell. U will never admit that there are group players which got much higher skill and understanding of the game than u.
They got a advantage, and thats how it should be. 4 players got more power than 1 and thats fine.
Dont compare yourself with ppl who play in group. Good players dont blame it on balance. They adapt and play the most efficient way. Thats where the knowledge about the game comes in. There is nothing preventing u from doing the same if u want to compete with the high end players. But if u cant even compete with me how will u compete with them?
Again add a solo mode for players. U also got challenge rift where u can compare “skill” with the ppl who actually care about it.
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even casual groups earn far more paragon, far more quickly, than solo (even being “efficient” as you so succinctly put it). That was my point.
Paragon farming is tied to builds - like last season, if you played the bone spear necro, you were farming GR120 in 2 mins repeatedly…if you played a D tier build like s6 impale, which is my preferred build, which is far weaker, cos hey, this crappy game is so badly balanced it isn’t funny, then it is far harder to be “efficient”. I shouldn’t be forced to play a certain build to farm XP in order to be efficient. That signals that the game is VERY badly designed.
I’d love to, but the LB database that Blizzard provides is again crappy and doesn’t let me do this. Manually checking the LBs and compiling data myself is just a waste of time. PS I regularly compete against players with MUCH higher paragon. That is real skill, not investing X amount of time in a game to get more paragon that artificially inflates your skill. Let’s have Blizzard do a test eh? Season of paragon - paragon capped at p1200 for all players. Let’s see what happens then as the “top” players now with mega paragon get their rear ends kicked by supposedly lesser players cos the paragon field has been levelled.
Yeah, I’ll pass. I don’t need to play in a group and earn mega paragon to say “I’m good”. Real men do it solo.
No, just no. That’s plain discriminatory at its most basic level.
No casual groups dont earn far more paragon far more quickly. I alrdy made a calculation its 5h difference from 1 paragon to 2000 paragon solo vs casual group. Thats not far more, its even less efficient or equall than solo if u add in extra stuff like ppl leave, afk, smokebreak, dinner etc.
From my experience i be less efficient if i stay in those groups.
Same thing as for group players, they are tied to certain builds and certain setups. Its more of a balance issue between set and classes than group vs solo issue however its not ez to make everything balanced. U not forced to play this “crappy” game. Its your opinion and some ppl like the game as it is.
Every game is a waste of time. U are wasting time idle in town, talking to ppl. If u can waste time on that u surely can waste time scrolling the leaderboard. However i dont mind a leaderboard which filters paragon, i would love to see that aswell.
Capping paragon means u make the game “crappy” for alot of ppl. Ppl who reach higher paragon will get 1.2k paragon in a day and be done with the game. There be no competition since ppl got no more reason to play after that and they just quit. Making the competition leave just so u can compete isnt the right way to go. U assume that ppl at higher paragon are bad. Ppl who spend more time in a game usually get better by time alot of the top tier players will still be top tier. Playing in group also mean u need to know more mechanics otherwise u mess up for the group. Solo play isnt the “harder” way to play. Farming isnt hard and have never been.
Or maybe just lonely ppl. Even “real men” enjoy being social.
Its the law of nature. 1+1 = 2. Its not 1+1 = 1. And there is no need to change that, u just have to accept reality.
Also thats not being discriminated, it would be if some players arent allowed to play in groups while others are. However thats not the case. A nurse who refuse to do abortion wont get paid as much as someone who does simply cause they do less work.
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