Got any official Blizzard-sourced citations for this?
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paragon is the reason d3 is an unskilled mess. Why play better when you can just grind more mainstat
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- Unskilled player, low paragon
- Unskilled player, high paragon
- Skilled player, low paragon
- Skilled player, high paragon
Category 4 will always beat Category 1.
Category 3 will often beat Category 2.
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this is completely false and pure 100% opinion. please dont spread misinformation on the forums without factual data okay thanks.
Meanwhile, factual data proves my caseâŚ
Thatâs me successfully clearing a higher level GR with roughly 2600 less paragon than the other player which, according to you, should be impossible.
Ha, ha, ha. Do you even remember posting thisâŚ
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This is true up to a point but with a difficulty hard cap and absurdly high progression cap itâs not as true as one would think.
Please stop making that comparison between you and that 5k dude. He didnt try very hard or push, no augs, not the best skill setup. I get your point in general, but a better comparison would be wudijo clearing rk 2 with 3k and multishot while the meta was lod rapid fire and other people having 4.5-5k para
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I understand that looking at it in a vacuum makes you feel more skilled⌠but that guy didnât even have arguments. He was clearly not trying to push on his barbarian. Definitely an alt; yet he cleared high just from having high paragon.
So, that doesnât help your case; it just makes it more obvious that paragon is a massive advantage.
Everything is 100% opinion on here and everything is made up
and given that noone in this example are going to be able to run the exact same run with the exact same build and equipment and stats on equipment and not everyone can play the same set with the same skill as other players
e.g. with me playing a crusader that isnât the invoker set I canât play to save myself so any skilled low Paragon player is going to eat me for breakfast even if I had a trillion paragon levels
So how exactly are you going to prove him wrong given itâs impossible to get the exact same equipment in the first place
As if high paragon is the only requirement to get ahead
Bigger problem is that the specialist equipment required to do high level runs you may not be able to play
Okay, how about the S22 Barb withâŚ
Rank 816 - GR125 - Paragon 6002 - Push build with Spear - Augments at 630-640 STR
It works the other way around too, i.e. someone with less paragon than me and much better clearsâŚ
Rank 142 - GR133 - Paragon 1748 - Push build with Spear - Augments at 575 STR
well thanks for proving my point, though obviously unintentional on your part, but you are oblivious when it comes to logic. saved me the effort, much appreciated.
Your point was that it wasnât possible for people with higher skill and lower paragon to beat people with lower skill and higher paragon. I disproved that with examples of precisely that taken from the leaderboards of Season 22. You know, facts rather than opinions.
Thanks for coming back. It was a much duller place without you.
The issue on this argument lays on season theme and RNG. I agree that skilled players can do okay at certain thresholds, but are really few of them and limited, every tier above the build cap, makes less important the skill. Donât get me wrong, skills plays a nice factor until certain range, after that gons and RNG will decide more often than not.
One player can have a godly rng while the other can have a garbage RNG. One can get like 5 minutes while the other get like 10 minutes. Doesnât mean that who did at 5minutes itâs the best or worst.
The current season can narrow down, more RNG and skill than the previous ones, but in the end will be about RNG. Because will compare same sets, no futher seasonal themes and will have only 5 variables(paragon, augment, gear rolls, skill and rng). Either way there is too much factors to consider. The last season I ran frenzy and done really well, my gons was like 100-500 above the wastes variants at the same leaderboards(didnât had the new system), doesnât mean the folks who did the same gr as me was worst or better than me.
I done gr 129 with 14:33:869 and failed one gr 130 with 15:16:342 because I died on the last hit on rg(with 30 sec penalty). Doesnât mean Iâm better or worst comparated to anybody who done gr 129 (I had 2300 gons and ran frenzy, most of the folks done with 100-500 gons more or less than me as wastes).
In the real scenario I wouldnât achieve the gr 130 if I didnât got a nice rng in there. So sometimes itâs about who fish more, not about skill.
I get that folks with more skills has more odds than the ones that donât have. Because godly rng can help you a lot, but if you donât know how to deal with it, sometimes you will lose the chance. But having the skills and having a garbage rng itâs less impactful than having godly rng and not being that good. If the skill was more important than rng, folks wouldnât fish. So in the end compairson are like âego flattererâ than a real measurement. Thatâs why I support leaderboards by set, because they are a good indictive of overall performance of the sets and will show what overperform and what underperforms(In a pool of 1000 players each). That will help to tweak sets to achieve the thresholds that devs want.
About the topic, about group xp and solo. Just increase the damage and/or hp from monsters per new player and that will make multiplayer more challenging(in the past mobs had their damage increased). Donât need to mess with xp or gems, just make it harder in a challenging ways(increase the damage per number of players will impact and more tankier builds to do pushs, increasing their hp will mean more damage to reach certain gr goals, reducing the speed gr level on runs. Those 2 could reduce the overall level runs by 3-10 helping the leveling process to become more âcloseâ to solo runs. The impact will be more severe on hardcore, but on softcore could solve all the âcomplaintsâ about it.
Because when you see a season when a group with 1300gr done 150 with 3z and one bsnecro you see that things got too easy. So increase the mob hp and damage could solve or just stop messing with those astronomical numbers and tweak them like was done on WoW to address the situation in a proper way.
Fishin is a part of the game. Sad but true. Rng is one thing and putting effort into finding the right maps is another. Good players know when to skip mob so they can still do fine even without great rng. In s22 ppl beat 150 within 48 h. But its a small fraction of ppl who does it. Nerfing things to put the top players lower down also means u hurt the ppl who arent in the top. Yes there are ppl who beat 150 quick. But there are even more ppl who never beat 150. U wanna make groups harder. Sure works for the ppl who run the optimal setup. Aka ratrunners, birdrunners. But how about the ppl who doesnt go for the optimal setup? The ppl with 4 dps? U wanna put them in a spot where they earn less exp than solo players? U wanna force more ppl to play the optimal setup or else they should solo? Mobs alrdy get increased hp when u play in group. The ppl who play the optimal way will get ahead. There are plenty of ppl who doesnt enjoy that playstyle, thats why we got this thread. Ppl are asking that u should be as effektive no matter how u play. There are even plenty of ppl here who wants the same paragon optimal players have while they not even spending 10% of the time farming as the optimal players does. I get it they wanna âshow offâ on the leaderboard. They all think they great and its unbalance which holds them down. Its a arpg. Time and mindless grind = power. U can choose to be as effective as possible with the time u got or u can not.
They should simply remove all the group buffs. Thereâs no reason that they get it easier, and with more rewards.
Organized groups have their advantage in the organization itself, they should not be given even more.
PUGs, on the other hand, right now exist only because of this blatant disparity. Many would not even bother with multi if it didnât give such a huge advantage over solo.
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There is. Corporations have learned through hard experience the social players play longer, spend more on microtransactions, and pull in more of their friends. The reason is money and theyâll continue to encourage group play over solo until the end of time. So people can complain about it but it wonât change any more than it has to. Battle.net is meant to be a social platform as much as Twitter and Facebook.
Not every one that playing together is organized though. Blizzard just wants to make sure that casual players that playing with their friends will feel rewarding when playing together.
PoE group doesnât have a group exp bonus and you can see many PoE players donât like to party up because they feel unrewarded when playing together.
PoE players think of PoE multiplayer.
https://i.imgur.com/2JpZHRB.png
That was the excuse to introduce the XP buff, now thereâs also the shared damage and health buffs.
Then you find those who cry the game is too easy but absolutely abuse of these mechanics because theyâre too good to pass on.
ATM any unorganized group would fare better than a solo, even a full DPS group.
Depends.
I played the public game GR100 and I earned less exp and slower clear time than playing solo though. You have no idea how bad was unorganized group sometimes.
Either way, it works.
and multiplayer being rewarding is always their goal for D3:
https://i.imgur.com/VyOSX2r.png
What group buffs? U mean the 30% exp bonus since hp on mobs scale? Thats not the reason why groups get ahead rly. U can remove it sure. But u will barely notice any difference.
PUG?
And some players play in groups since they dont enjoy playing solo. And many ppl doesnt care if groups are ahead of solo. Many ppl only mind their own business and play the game cause they enjoy it and doesnt look at leaderboard and get jelly of ppl who are better than them. There is some ppl and its pretty much the same ppl who complain about it on forum over and over. There is alot of opinions, the problem is that some ppl wanna ruin for others simply cause they cant compete with the ppl who they shouldnt compete or compare themselves with in the first place.
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