I never said they didn’t. But it puts things in that can make up for that loss, instead of everything relying solely on one skill and thus removing the option of choice.
1 Like
Thx for the answer Prokahn. I would still love to know why. I’m not really expecting a direct answer from a dev or someone who works on the game and might know it. But I just can’t get the question out of my mind
And there are none.
Honestly, if this had been offset by an increase in the set bonus, most would not be too upset.
The problem is that the 66% damage reduction is not offset anywhere.
FYI for DH you really need to get good gear rolls (very rare rings/amulet/bow/quiver) and augment everything. Most of the higher DH players didn’t use that class to get the way above 2000+ paragon, but now that they are there, their paragon lvl advantage is handily apparent. DH for most people is still just to get above GR110! So please reexamine the leaders.
These are direct distribution of era clears. No assumption etc is there. This is how the clears are distributed in leaderboards.
When does this game ever had choice? With limited stash space available, they want to dictate when to play a certain build. The buff / nerf serves the best purpose of rinse and repeat gear hunt. Its a time sink management system.
If buffing rend is the sole chance for Barb to reach 14x, then so be it. It doesnt change much to play style. I understand where you are coming from, however its posts like yours contributes to the barb nerf. With such a big changes to barb items, there wont be another chance for the “buffs from other items” commented by you.
Lamentation nerf is -7 tier. Which is 133-136 with 10k paragon and near perfect rift, a rift that i havent seen on my solo push after thousands of key spent. Welcome to new barb. I am not confident my 8k barb with full 150 gems will cruise past 13x.
Oh dont get started on there is still HoTA. The new buff is a ninja nerf to this spec. Ancients / pets disrupts groupings, on high tiers the buffed item costs rift time than providing them. Its clear blizzard wants barb to be mid level speed only rather than capable pushing. Shame on them.
There is no balance in D3. The only dps classes are INT classes.
7 Likes
They really do need to revert this bs nerf. Wtf is the point of buffing a class just to revert it back to where it was. Why the heck cant you start small and work your way up if needed with a nerf. Like perhaps instead of lamentation buffing it 200% drop it to 150 first and try that. But no lets just revert it to the same pos it was before bc people who probably never played barb and didnt know how bad it was say its op get their way. Do you not realize barb has been BOTTOM tier for like the past 15or more seasons. Suddenly theyre brought to wiz levels and the nerf train starts. Why must you crush a class that has needed love for years and years. I am so gd sick of having to play wiz to be competitive and they are still kings even after their nerf. Barb nerf was completely unjustified and i sincerely hope you devs 2nd guess your decision here bc you always go too far. Peeps ask for an inch and you always take a mile. You couldve easily tweaked it to keep the haters happy and the fans of it satisfied but no you just had to gut the whole dam thing. Yet you wonder why fans are beginning to hate your corporation and cancel their subscriptions. Ive been a huge fan since i was 13 yrs old playing d1. I would walk 2 miles everyday to use the computers at a college campus near my house to take advantage of the cable internet bc then we only had dial up. The amount of love i have lost for you all at blizzard over the years is rediculous. I have 0 faith in you all at this point and it breaks my heart bc i have been a longtime dedicated fan playing every single game youve ever released. But these days you take things too far and my faith and trust in you is gone. I am so disapointed in the devs and in this nerf i dont even wanna touch next season now. Hope you think things through more thoroughly in the future.
2 Likes
I’m curious… may i know what GR level your barb’s at? Thanks.
We need Ms Cheetah to convey to the Devs our outrage on the Barb nerf.
Distribution of era clears is also the worst method of comparing:
- stronger builds is playing much more people than weaker, thats way without inclusion of number of people playing each build is useless
- some builds are used mostly to speed GR without pushing and has on leaderboards many clears under 5 min. (for example necro), without inclusion time of each clear is comparison useless
Comparison according max GR clear isn’t ideal, but it is much better.
One example: Impale DH is easy build and many players use it to upgrade gems. Distribution of clears with Impale is very high. But max clear is much lower than other builds.
EU NS max for Impale is GR132 with 8k paragon with 14:43 time.
Nerf Impale does note make any sense, but distribution may indicates it.
WW Rend nerf (if will be 0% on lamentation) is too much, nerf to 100% would be enough.
But even with overnerf still be much higher than Impale.
That for comparison according distribution…
And overall my opinion to balance:
- Chant. Vyr 145 life → 141/142 after nerf (nerf is whole 3,5GR, fixing squirt doesnt help, max clear on life is without squirt) > ok after nerf
- bazooka 148: main problem > I don’t know how much will be nerf in GR number, it is needed around 6-7 GR and I hope that it will be enough nerf
- WW rend: 7GR is too much, around 4GR (100% on lamentation) would be enough; 145/146 live potencial > 141/142 after proper nerf
- Necro will have problem to reach 140+ after nerf, need buff elsewhere
- Monk need buff
- WD and DH is ok
- Crus need sligtly buff (I don’t know new set max GR potencial)
Ambo’s Pride will still apply Rend. The problem is, Rend will do no damage.
Or maybe the devs can listen to the player base like they should be.
1 Like
Here we go again. Tired of explaining. You can have a read here. If I wanted to seriously suggest buff numbers, I would use the method below, which I did only for barbarians:
Now before you excite yourself in order to claim that my approach is not accurate, you should rewind the tape to two years ago and remember that this approach more or less aligns with what the developers crunch in the background.
For academic purposes you can read them here:
Thanks for the heads up though.
I’m not going to get into the relative merits of the analysis methods. It’s beyond me. However if your method most closely resembles what the developers use and they’ve botched it for years it’s not much of a recommendation. It would be more useful to explain why they’re doing it wrong and you’re not in simple language.
Man that is beyond me. I actually stopped my analyses after S12 because overall balance achieved from S11 to S12 with Don Vu was very good.
However, they did not stop touching the sets. After this they kept buffing and buffing. Now when we look at these indicators, we see that the balance is messed up again. I only look at this in detail from barbarian perspective because barbarian class problems were not only set buffs but also legendary supporting items. And this has been the main aspect Free, Rage and all the other community pushed for in this PTR. Thanks to their efforts barbs have received some much needed item revisions.
Why they do this? I think this is their way of keeping the gamers engaged to the game until D4 is out. I might be wrong, but there is no other logic behind the continous upsetting of the “balance”. We should rather call it equivalent efficiency (differs at various GR levels).
P.S: I put together the feedbacks of that time for reference in the 2nd thread above. And this was Don Vu confirming our numbers back in the day
1 Like
Seems like I neglected to post in this thread to show my support to reverse this totally unnecessary nerf!
There, I feel better now!
1 Like
Developers have more data. They have the most important missing part as number of people playing each build. We haven’t it.
Than they are able to do good comparison (if they want). Without it is analysis misleading.
The question is what is developers goal to achive with buff and nerfs. I don’t know the answer. Developers main goals in patch notes was vaguely formulet and it isn’t clear what is mean.
You used clearing time and paragon to comparison, which is good. But paragon is there overated (because of main stat on items and augments).
And dependencies of clearing time isn’t linear (how you used it).
There are simplifying assumiptions such as Paragon likely to be directly related to gem levels and caldessans (in my approach). Of course they have more data and they can fine tune better.
I am just giving a napkin math estimation, which more or less match theirs. It gets the job done to prevent trolls.
It does not matter. What matters is applying the same comparison to all the classes in the same way to see the relative differences. Accuracy in an idealized problem is not relevant (like in engineering). What matters is confining the problem to a set of approximated boundary patterns. This facilitates to formulate a very simple and crude solution to a problem.
Ahh. developers have more data. I think I saw this expression about 1000 times in the last two years. I know bro I know they have. Accuracy is not relevant here.
1 Like
Gem levels and caldesens depends most if player is solo or not. I see often 150 lvl DPS gems on low paragons (leveled in party). And solo players can have high paragon and lower gems.
A few seasons back it was much realated than now, because 150 lvl cap.