Regarding ik hota, why don’t you just run remorseless and echoing fury? That’s a pretty hefty speed boost.
Remember this :
No one is pushing with other classes.
They are trying out Barbarian, monk and crusader…
Can’t go for a leaderboard comparison if you don’t have the same amount of players/paragons/gear etc. pushing for grift clears.
Ptr is to test things out. Not to push with every class there is…
You should know this.
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The post is about using Remorsless and Enchoing fury.
Yeah, but I was reading others post, they were complaining about the loss of attackspeed.
Micro, in fairness that is an exception to the rule.
The player is over 10,500 paragons.
Your prior graph was a better indicator.
Even in the days when all tournament games were arcade machines, there was always one freak-phenomenal player that had better hand-to-eye coordination, better reflexes and reaction times than anyone else.
Scaling anything based on the handful of players that fit this category is illogical.
They deserve all the praise in the world, but the majority is the scaling.
It’s pretty equal to the pre-nerfed Chantodo’s build.
I still believe they should raise every set in every class to the same levels, then everyone wins, but that’s just me perhaps?
P.S - Loved the comparative chart of damage too BTW.
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We must include other PTR cycles into consideration as well.
It’s a weak argument to say other classes are not tested as much because in previous PTRs the gap between the classes were only that big if something either a) stayed the same and made it live and the result being an OP build or b) the build was nerfed before the patch was released
just sayin’
I haven’t checked if the gap is really that big between the solo clears but if it’s true I highly suggest something is wrong and one of the 2 options above will apply 
I’m finding Wastes pretty squishy on higher GRs. So the damage is ok, you have to invest most support into toughness, like replace COE with unity or band of might. One of the builds where push limit is rather survivability than damage.
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Rend WW is easy to gear. Don’t forget.
(that’s why seasonal barbs are up that much)
The poster is complaining about losing AS too. And me too. Enchoing fury is not enough. Stack only with density. And not constans. Much worse the surviveability too. Read my post upon if interested.
I think alot of people also need to realize, especially the ones that are crying for nerfs, that the seasonal buff is absolutely breaking the game. Without it, we wouldnt see such easy clears for Barbs.
Since yesterday i have looked closer at how much damage the Barb really does compared to old Wiz and Nec and it is pretty close, but Nec and Wiz are STILL stronger than the Barb. So i have changed my mind, BARB SHOULD NOT BE NERFED IN ANY WAY
What needs change is the seasonal buff. It’s ridiculously strong, it makes RGKs obsolete and it speeds up clears by easily 50% in a best case scenario.
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Yes.
So it should only be Wiz that is allowed to be OP right?
I’ve been watching Wiz players/Wiz favoring developers shape the ‘meta’ for this game for at least 3 years now. Enough is enough, other classes need to be that strong to create diversity in groups and entice players to pick up different classes in season and non season.
Does the game attract more players when one class is OP or when all are equally viable for their own reasons/play style? Here’s a hint; the former is a trick question because that’s the model we have and this has lost a ton of players in the last few years.
Leave barbs alone. They do deserve it, because that community doesn’t engage in idiotic PTR games (Wiz/DH do) where they lowball clear potential for their class and pump up clear potential for others to beg for nerfs on ptr forum.
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As others have said, no one playing Wizard since it only got a nerf.
Crusaders, Monks, and especially Barbarians got all of the new toys.
==========
Remorseless probably needs an attack speed buff to be where we need it. Maybe
40% ias
400% hota
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I have been labelled table guy since I like to present numbers and cross class comparisons. I would be apprehensive in comparing top PTR clears because we do not know the number of player pushing each class. I would also be worried about using the seasonal leaderboard because we do not know if there are class-specific differential effects.
Although I have be unfairly accused of bias, we need to be cautious in how we interpret things.
It would be more fair to check the statistics for the top 40 current era leaderboard as listed for each class in diablo3ladder versus the current PTR era board. Needless to say, you would expect the era leaderboard to have higher clears than the PTR overall for the top 40.
Also, both wizard and necromancer’s top builds were nerfed in the PTR.
If I counted correctly, only 4-8* of the top 40 current era barbs are represented on the current PTR top 40 leaderboard.
#The reason I wrote 4-8, is that there are 4 with Asian characters that I am unclear.
I am not sure the barb or monk should argue about build diversity in groups, given their obligatory role as zDPS in the 4-man meta since season 3.
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Right but ptr isn’t over yet and there is a precedent for what I’m talking about. It’s all about prevention brother.
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Thank you for agreeing inadvertently that nerfing outliers isn’t the way to go, you realize that Monk/Barb preference was created by nerfing Wiz/WD/Crusader in terms of support power?
Because neither can function as DPS and Crusader can’t function as either role optimally after those nerfs years ago, same as DH unless we’re talking about a niche low end speed farm setup.
If other classes could zdps/dps Barb/Monk wouldn’t be obligatory in their roles. Barb/Monk being obligatory were the result of nerfs. Not sure I’m reading your post right, but it looks like you’re assuming I’m OK with the ZPDS streamlining, which I’m not.
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I’m just saying that 2 of the 4 positions in the 4-man meta have “always” gone to monk and barbs as zDPS/support roles since season 4. That leaves 5 classes competing for 2 DPS roles since season 3.
NOTE: I am not saying that barbs should not be buffed because of this. Barbs are underperforming ana a buff is clearly warranted. I am pleased that a buff is coming for both game and personal reasons.
The question in my mind is magnitude. Let’s assume for a moment that Blizzard messed up the numbers and barbs could solo 150. Would that be a problem? If so, I think it is quite fair to think about what number barbs will eventually land at with their buff this patch?
Do you know how the ptr works?
Do you know anything about it?
Ptr = public test realm…
It is indicated in the name : test…
You see people trying out Crusader / Monk and Barbarian.
They are not spending one week to try and push with other classes. That is what season and non season are for.
One week is to test things out, if something needs tweaking.
I didn’t recall seeing you nor Rna when Wizard cleared the same as Barbarian now. Or Necro for that matter. There is a huge cap cause people don’t farm for classes, they farm for the new stuff to test it out…
This is basic knowledge.
Don’t forget… Barbarians is around the same level as when Wizards and Necro’s didn’t get nerfed as in this ptr.
So 2 classes are alright to be so op. But when it comes to Barbarians WHICH has not recieved anything in a lOOOONG time, oh no it is a disaster!!..
The logic.
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As I demonstrated twice already quoting myself to you, I have been consistent in my opinion that it is easier to nerf an outlier OP class than buff all the others. If you want to see how many years that I have had this opinion just search the old forum. If you haven’t guessed, I am pretty consistent in my thought process in this matter.
The real question is this:
If the barb buff goes live as is and nerfs to other classes go live as is, would barbs be an outlier class in terms of solo DPS?
I honestly do not know the answer to this. Certainly, barbs will be in the top 2 in terms of power.
150 wouldn’t be a problem, we’re going to get there eventually. The issue when we really unpack your question is which class are the community and the devs most OK with in reaching 150 first.
Unlike all other games the scaling in difficulty/reward structure (paragon/augment/gem levels) in this game makes your argument about nerfing outliers moot. Those factors make ‘outliers’ the next stage in character power for this game. Which is why I’ve always argued for buffs not nerfs, so long as the power level wasn’t the result of a bug (Twiser wiz). Even then after bug fixes there were buffs to bring up the power of other classes (and other wizard set ups) so others could achieve the same augment/gem levels as people who used the Twister bug for several seasons.
Easiest nearly never translates to best in the real world. Using your example earlier for group diversity in zdps/dps. Those limiting factors didn’t have a positive influence in the game, in terms of maintaining player count and interesting game play. I’m not trying to be contrite that’s just the way things work out.
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I have a simple reason for slightly overbuff instead of slightly overnerf WW:
A slightly underpowered WW will not be popular next patch. It’s easier to leave it overpowered than to nerf it to death.
Barbs don’t need a “playable” WW build. Barbs need competitive power that they were lacking last X seasons. It would be worse having barbs still not top3 in damage than making them #1 or #2 in that spot.
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