I mean, as long as the gates are closed, the angel is safe since nobody will come after him.
Also, I have to bring the Malthael case again as none of his followers, who deserted the Heavens long after him, have been bothered by the Council, even though they were “hiding” almost in plain sight in Pandemonium. The law enforcement doesn’t seem that ruthless in Heavens…
Not sure about that.
And Santuary is still a neutral Zone.
Also was it Linarian, who reballed against his Parents, while assambling others around him, that would be willing enough to fight for his cause.
And this was already before the Sin War, but long after Lilith slaughter.
So the Chances, that there are still Angels in the Shadows aren´t that slim.
Well if Heaven close it’s gates, I’d think it means that no angel is to interact with Sanctuary. If an angel decides to go rogue, they’d have to do so outside of their post, and thus far that means getting rid of their wings as Tyrael had, otherwise they’d be directly defying Heaven’s law and such are eligible for punishment.
As for Malthael’s followers, well Urzael, Malthael’s lieutenant actually had to get permission from the Angiris council (which took years) to even go look for Malthael, who had longed disappear. So it’s not like the reapers had just left the High Heavens without Heaven noticing or knowing.
I am, as there hadn’t been any cases for an angel to have gone missing, and Heaven failed to noticed. At least none that I’m aware of.
It is slim, because otherwise, Inarius would’ve simply slain all the Nephalems had there been any angels left. Lilith’s purge had either killed every angel or demon residing within Sanctuary, or had caused them to flee back to their respective realms (heaven or hell). Inarius was the only angel left, by the time the sin wars had started.
Keep in mind, part of the reason as to why Lilith killed most of the others was to cause Inarius the realization that if the Nephalems were slain by his hands, then he would truly be left alone, and he did not want that. As such, Lilith actions forced Inarius to spare the Nephalems and instead alter them to become weaker via the Worldstone.
Between the Purge and the Start of the Sin War is a huuuuuge Time-Gap.
And as sayed was Linarian assambling likeminded Follower around him.
This won´t exclude the one or other Refugee, frome outside of Santuary.
The renegade angels and demons began to see that the nephalem were more powerful than their progenitors, raising concerns that the nephalem might pose a threat to their parents, or might draw the attention of Heaven and Hell to Sanctuary, neither of which would condone such progeny. Because of this, conflict arose among the renegades, some arguing for the destruction of the nephalem, others advocating that they should be spared.
Inarius called for a period of reflection, which his followers obeyed.According to an ancient text, Lilith was driven into a mad frenzy at the prospect of her children’s extinction. She saw the nephalem as the future, and as the means of ending the Eternal Conflict once and for all. She morphed into a new, horrific form, and hunted down her fellow renegades. She ruthlessly murdered every follower of Inarius, leaving him to discover the carnage she had wrought.
So the Chances, she spared the ones on her own Faction, wanting the Nephalem to end the Conflict, might be a good Chance, that they had survied it.
She didn’t. She slew both demon and angel regardless of their faction. Those who survived, only did so because they fled from Sanctuary and went back to their realm.
When Sanctuary was created, the demons and angels who hid there, including the leaders Inarius and Lilith, had offspring—the first of the nephalem. The angels and demons eventually clashed over whether to spare or kill their new progeny, who had the potential to be more powerful than their progenitors. While Inarius weighed his options in solitude, Lilith lashed out and killed the remaining demons and angels to prevent them from harming the nephalem.
Taken from:
So by the time the sin wars started, Inarius was the only angel left on Sanctuary. Now you could say that another angel came and managed to hide from Inarius sight, however I would still doubt this as Inarius had quickly noticed Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto while they were acting indirectly towards Sanctuary. So I’m confident that he’d noticed another angel as well.
She slaughtered Demons and Angels alike, no matter what they where.
But why should she kill all of her own Follower, who wanted to raise the Nephalem and where against Inarius.
And as sayed.
The Gap beween this Events and the Sin War is quite huge.
And Inarius, no matter how powerfull, didn´t even noticed Trag Oul and how his own Son became his Discipel, assambling his own Man behind him.
The biggest reason as I said earlier was to render Inarius alone. If Lilith had spared her followers, then Inarius would’ve still killed the Nephalems even after he banished Lilith. However by killing her followers as well, she forced the realization upon Inarius that if he killed the Nephalems, then he’d be by himself within Sanctuary. She knew that Inarius would never had wanted that.
The second reason is more of my speculation, however Lilith also possibly killed her followers because she knew in time, that they could change their minds regarding the Nephalems. Be it by Inarius convincing or some other influence, but just because they wanted to spare the Nephalems at that moment, didn’t mean that a hundred years or more into the future, they’d have felt the same.
Regarding Inarius not noticing Rathma, I’d say that’s mostly because he was focused on the prime evils. Trag’Oul on the other hand isn’t a being tied to either heaven nor hell, as such it’s likely that he lacks either of the essence that would’ve made Inarius instantly noticed him. On the other hand, an angel possesses essence that Inarius is well aware of, likely quick to noticed.
Book of Wisdom says:
Those who hate God, love death.
a page or two later says
Those who love death deserve to become its prey.
What this tells you is that those who love death hate life. So, to manipulate the public, who loves to not do the thinking, they project death either as death wish, or as projection, away from themselves at their target which they wish to sabotage, subvert, destroy.
Angels are servant spirits, they obey. Black angels obey peoples evil demands. Angels of God do the will of God, obey God. God cannot do evil, thus angels of God cant do evil.
Justice is in the hands of God. So, when people become decadent like through corporate subversion that they love death and hate God and His Children ? God tends to punish the wicked with their own wickedness, so their downfall is just and right. You cant simply let evil unopposed, because it destroys everything and everyone when it is left to do what it wills.
That God can punish and even wipe out evil doers is well in His right. God forgives and punishes both. Just because you are forgiven, it doesnt mean that you are free to sin, because you will rightly get smacked into place, so you dont think that God did something for you that He automatically jumps around your whims. This wont happen. God is The Most High, Holy Trinity, One God. If He wanted, you would jump around instead for thinking too high of yourself. If you never knew or were even interested in God, God is God of Freedom and of Order. Not of violence. So He doesnt force you to serve. But at the same time, you are told that you will be repaid if you do. Not at all necessarily in material goods, you could be pretty poor and a reject of society etc., it is usually the rejects that seek God hopefully without stumbling into doomsday cults or others.
Games like D1 propagated satanism, D2 did as well, even though not as glaringly. (D1 hero basically resembling something like the Antichrist, devil in the forehead, unforgivable sin, Christian-resembling people were given death godhood names, Akkar of ancient egypt - in names like Akara, then something similar, Atma or Athma.)
René Descartes (or Cartesio) Cain, getting a devilry-infused tree pentagram to get to Christ the Lamb of God or ‘Trist’-‘ram’, then … a hammer instead of either martellus, marcus or malleus or whatever names for the hammer, they chose evil, malus.
Act 2 Tal Rasha, backwards, Ashar, well ashera is a ‘godhood’ that is not. It is about a worship of a tree something like that in A1 quest 3 in D2.
Act 3, the wannabe antichrist after supposedly taking out the ‘sisterhood of the sightless eye’ (vs devils bro-hood of so-called all-seeing one, synagogue of satan) goes to ‘Kurast’ that backwards is Tsaruk, tsar being Emperor, U looking like Y letter in Cyrillic, K replaced by G would make it TsaryG. Tsarigrad transliteras to City of the Emperor. City of the Emperor contains so-called misspelled ‘Travincal’ or Vatican which has extra R and L letters. D2 basically says that the spirit of the antichrist wishes to destroy the Roman Catholic Church. Because Vatican is the place of the Holy See.
LoD proceeds to corrupt a a holy mountain, well what can be speculated at there is that it could be mount Zion, where God of the Bible said He would ‘sort of’ stay forever. What this could mean is that the Harmagedon place and so on. So this is how evil is made to look triumphant, or what its followers are led to believe that they can achieve through subversion and corruption.
D3 was propagating a different kind of facial makeup, masonic cults instead. It is these that are behind the corporate death culture. The wickedness of nutziism came from the occult groups, so it is the same evil in a new facelift. That one resulted in WW2 and war to the death so that others could live in the future. I am not overblowing.
D3 managed to make angels of God and God implicitly, as the bad guys. This corresponds with death worship. It is a perversion of reality. It is pushing lie as the narrative. One big lie is the promotion of the idea that the devil would have any power over anybodys soul when they die. To be judged by God to eternal fire forever instead of eternal life, is the requirement, it is when the person judged is judged for ever. Judgements of God are perfect. There are no errors. God is merciful, but He is also just and repays justice toward those who had no mercy. The wages of sin is death. Jesus out of God’s love died for your sin so that you could live. He was resurrected on third day. Jesus defeated death on the cross. Cross is the symbol for salvation. It is that your sin was paid for by Jesus on the Cross, He has paid for You. Care not for the devils narratives, he is a nobody compared to God. Heaven is thus open, not closed. The enemy wants to hunt you and destroy you with lies. He wants to force-feed you lies of how hopeless and trashy you are, when you accept Jesus as your Master, Messiah and Savior, then you will get to know that God does love you.
And that you do not need to repay others wrongs, let God do it. Those who think themselves outside of reach of just punishment, when they do you wrong, do not repay. There is no hiding from the Most High, Creator of the Whole universe. He is literally everywhere even when He seems absent. And He wants you to take up your cross and follow Him. Forgive and pray for your enemies. I know it is all generalist, but hopefully you get the idea. 
Trag’Oul cloaks his presence and doings. He isn’t going to be noticed unless he wants his presence to be known or something bad happens to him.
Except the concept of “god” doesn’t exist in Diablo lore. There were the first ones Anu and Tathemet, which could be god and satan, but it’s really a stretch.
Mist if it is just symbology to give players some semblance of familiarity. Demons bad, angels good. When in reality as we find out through books and later games that both are pretty bad for us. Angels aren’t benevolent beings looking after us and our progenitor demon seeks to protect us while using and killing us at the same time.
But make no mistake, there is no god in these games.
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Description of the Monk: They’re really religious holy men, they are raised from childhood in secluded monasteries where they are taught to be pure expressions of their deities through perfection of their fighting techniques. They have 1001 gods and they go so far as to tattoo a symbolic representation of them all over their backs, it’s this intricate design and it takes their whole life to complete… When they’re not fighting they’re training to fight, they spend their time in deep meditation to cleanse sin from themselves… They’re equally feared and respected, even by their own citizens, because they are a little bit - you know, they dedicate their whole lives to this. The guy who dedicates his whole life to fighting in the service of God is not a guy you want to see coming down the street for you. - Leonard Boyarsky
“The people of Xiansai worship fifty-nine gods but few are more revered than Zei, the exiled trickster god who travels the face of the world, disguised as a humble merchant. Tales of his adventures range from ingenious thefts and practical jokes to more… lurid exploits, none of which I am comfortable recording here.”
— Abd al-Hazir
Liria was a goddess of incomparable beauty, which occasionally has caught the eye of Dirgest. He decided to make Liria his wife, and after a while, she agreed: the god of desire was too persistent in his efforts. However, despite all his jealous attempts to keep Liria off the face of the world, he could not guard her at night, when she had to travel the sky. Liria quickly became lonely and bored, but Dirgest would have never let her away.
They are in the lore and we did help Shen the trickster god. 
From their perspective they are gods, from an actual perspective, there are no gods. Especially a christian inspired singular diety.
Sure
But this also caunts for everyone else beeing left behind on Santuary.
And that his/her first Apereance is right after the Purge, can also be counted, that there might be some still left behind, without anyone knowing.
Otherwise, someone might have found out about them, was Lilith and Inarius but the ones who created this Pocketdimension and everything within it.
And that Trag Oul´s fate is bound to Santuary itself, does either mean it is the Soul of Santuary, something Lilith created once or he/she is a Medium the few last Surviver tend to communicate with others.
Sure.
But the early Nephalem where worshiped as God´s by the later Generations.
Only because of theyr Powers, not because they where ones.
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Just like we thought the old gods in WoW were the most powerful things ever. But that’s because we had no perspective of what they really were.
We know very little regarding Trag’Oul, besides some tidbits, such as him being the guardian of Sanctuary, possessing some incredible powers, along with him not being aligned with either Heaven or Hell, and his desire for balance. We don’t know when or how he came into existence. That said, we do know that there are other beings similar to him that also serve as guardians to their respective worlds.
If I had to wager a guess as to Trag’Oul’s origin, I’d say that Trag’Oul is either the by-product of the clash between Anu and Tathamet, just as the rest of the Universe was, or (and this is least likely imo) Trag’Oul is a being from a separate realm of reality (outside of the Diablo universe that we know of) that had entered into the picture some time after Sanctuary’s creation.
Either way, here’s hoping that we’ll learn even just a bit more about Trag’Oul come Diablo 4.
Joa.
Just as in the other Diskussion we had a few Month back.
So far every Blizz Univers tends to go with the three Layers of :
Material Realm
A Nether or inbetween Realm
And the Void
It may be some leftovers from the beginning.
But I still get the Vibes of the Moorcook-Multivers frome this Games, wich is great 
I loved the Books esp. since I started with the full Elric-Sage as a 8 Year old one and devoured nearly every Book frome him, I came across later on 
I really hope we do 
I like good Storys. I really like them.
Also a Reason why at least once or twice a Year, play the good old SNES-Games, like FF 3 , Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 2 or Lufia 2.
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Urzael, yes. The many thousands of other angels ? I find it hard to believe they all went missing just to search for him and nobody found it suspicious. But let’s assume the Council, still trusting Malthael, thought it was ok if his host did whatever it wanted.
Tyrael didn’t need to tear off his wings to go back to Sanctuary. He did it as an example to his kind, that man and angels are tied together no matter what the Council says. This act alone was against the laws of Heaven but it didn’t prevent Tyrael to come back as a Council member.
Moreover, a rogue angel could have fled right before they closed the door. Or he didn’t come back from an outpost in Pandemonium, which could be interpreted has being killed or at least MIA. The Council wouldn’t have a clue it’s a deserter, especially if there’s some commotion in the Heavens.
Not to mention the angels that may still live hidden in Sanctuary long before that.
If we’re talking about the reapers, then yes, they also went with Urzael, and it was known to the council:
“After Malthael’s disappearance, the Angiris Council appointed his most loyal servant, Urzael, to find him and bring him back to the High Heavens. Urzael, accompanied by the sect of maidens who were Malthael’s closest followers, set out to find their absent master. They never returned.”
Taken from:
So yes, the council knew exactly why Urzael and Malthael’s other followers had left and even gave the okay for it. What they didn’t know was what would come after Malthael’s followers had left and eventually found Malthael.
Yes, that’s part of the reason for Tyrael shedding his wings, but the other part was that Tyrael also couldn’t continue helping Sanctuary the way he had been doing, or even moreso without coming to greater confrontations with Imperius and risking punishment.
A Blue quote from some years back describing Tyrael’s situation in greater detail:
"The issue with this is that the Angiris Council (and indeed, all angels) adhere to their laws so vehemently that there was no room for Tyrael to act outside of them without cutting his ties. The Book of Tyrael touches on this a bit, particularly on how while they have great power in this devotion, it also consistently limits their ability to act.
Also remember that there was once a truce struck between the High Heavens and Hells that neither side would interfere with the matters of mortals. While the Prime Evils have had no qualms about breaking this agreement (as you might expect), the Angiris Council has continued to uphold their end. Heaven’s complete and utter devotion to order is both a strength and a flaw. Tyrael realized this, and decided it was best he would no longer be governed by this nature."
Also
"Tyrael’s disobedience is certainly why he and Imperius butted heads. And if Tyrael continued that path up in the High Heavens, it’s unlikely that Imperius would have continued to allow Tyrael to continue his shenanigans.
Tyrael avoided one conflict so he could fully focus on another. The rest of the Angiris Council wasn’t willing to intervene, but Tyrael was and is. Not only does he not need to be an angel to do so, but staying an angel would have continued to inhibit his goals. It was certainly a risk, but one he felt was worth taking."
Unfortunately the original blue message is gone as the old forums are no longer available, but a copy of the message can be found here:
But in short, Tyrael becoming mortal wasn’t just to set an example, but also to ensure that he could continue to assist Sanctuary more directly without any restraint set by the High Heavens.
Before the events of Diablo 3, most of the angels still battling in pandemonium didn’t even know that Sanctuary existed. So it wouldn’t have been an angel still fighting at pandemonium. As for an angel fleeing right before, they closed the door, that again, would’ve been noticable to the High Heavens. Thus far, there hasn’t been an instance where an angel went missing and it wasn’t noticed by the High Heavens.
While there may be some angels hidden in sanctuary that went unnoticed from both the burning hell and the high heavens, I’d say that it’s a major stretch.
But doesn´t show this all so more clear, that the majority of the Angels sees the Mortals as Abominations, that should be cleansed, if they dont want to attack, esp if they are as strong as they could be and on the same Time under the attackt of theyr own arch Enemy, they are fighting against, for the lastr trillions of Years ?
Think about it
They where just hoping for genozid, done by the Demons.
Maybe this is the Reason why Malthael did it in the End by himself … For the Angels,the only bitter Pill is, that it was done by an Angel, not by a Demon.
Thanks for the sources.
Yes, that’s pretty weird the Council never thought of investigating this mass disappearance, following the strange behaviour of Malthael hiding his actions from them. Wasn’t that against their laws by the way ?
If I understand correctly the problem is about Imperius not allowing Tyrael to help humanity as an angel anymore, so he had to loose his wings and become human. That’s because his actions towards humanity were known for a very long time. In the case of a lesser, lower profile angel that’s not trying to convince anyone, that wouldn’t be as difficult.
How so ? The Heavens knew about it for milleniums ! Did they keep their sentinels on post for all this time and not speak to them without them thinking “wow that’s weird” ?
Again, what if they did ? Once Heavens closed its gates, there was nothing they could do about it.
Also, where is it stated than Heavens never lost eye on any angel ?
It really doesn’t seem so to me. In the real world people disappear everyday, especially in a time of war. Why not in the world of Diablo ?
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