đŸ”± Improve Thorns gameplay

General Discussion
1

Spear of Jairo

Your Thorns is increased by 30% for every enemy afflicted by one of your curses. Taunt enemies in a 15 yards radius. Ennemies attack speed is increased by 500%.

Explainer

  • Double Thorns bonus per monster per curse
  • Greatly improve monsters attack speed. Force monsters to attack. Spend less time to wait for monsters to attack. Deliver Thorns faster.

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Heart of Iron

Gain 300% increased Thorns

Explainer

  • Provide a flat Thorns bonus
  • Not based on Vitality (which is useless for Crusaders, Necromancers, etc.)

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Vo’toyias Spiker

Enemies affected by Provoke or Taunt take double damage from Thorns
(Crusader Only)

Explainer

  • Support Boyarsky’s Chip taunt power
  • Support Spear of Jairo new taunt power
  • Remove the class lock. This item is now usable and cubable by everyone

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Sanguinary Vambraces

50% Chance on being hit to deal 1000% of your Thorns damage to nearby enemies. Applies to minions. Shrines and Pylons have 50% chance to spawn two enemy champions.

Explainer

  • Improve chance of being casted
  • Apply cast to minions to improve Thorns surface area
  • Add a variation of the Nemesis bracers effect (for fun)

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Hack

1000% of your Thorns damage is applied on every attack. 50% chance to double this effect.

Explainer

  • Multiply by 10x the flat Thorns bonus to make it usable (currently it is so weak
)
  • Had a random effect for fun.

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The Butcher’s Sickle

Gain 50% increased Thorns. 100% chance to drag enemies to you when attacking. All runes of all your curses become an aura that curses all enemies within 15 yards. (Necromancer Only)

Explainer

  • Small flat Thorns damage
  • Efficient Pull & Curse mechanism
  • Paired with Sanguinary Vambraces, helps to deliver Thorns faster
  • Being able to have Decrepify : Enfeeblement / Wither / Opportunist or Frailty : Scent of Blood / Volatile Death / Early Grave as an aura is kinda cool
  • Cannot be The Ess of Johan nor Briggs’ Wrath that have different mechanisms

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Dayntee’s binding

You gain an additional 50% damage reduction when there is an enemy afflicted by one of your curses.

Explainer

  • 50% damage reduction per active curse
  • Reward usage of multiple curses
  • Using Heart of Iron with a set (Ex: Inarius), instead of Aquila or Razeth’s Volition, requires damage mitigation
  • Using Spear of Jairo with ennemies having 500% increased attack speed requires damage mitigation

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Trag’Oul’s Corroded Fang

The Cursed Scythe rune for Grim Scythe and Tendril Nova now has have a 100% chance to apply a curse and you deal 200% increased damage to ennemies afflicted by one of your curses

Explainer

  • 200% increased damage per active curse (An ennemy afflicted by 3 curses takes 600% increased damage)
  • Reward usage of multiple curses
  • Pairable with Haunted Visions + Simulacrum / Cursed Form (and Frailty / Aura of Frailty)
  • Allow Tendril Nova to trigger the damage bonus

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Tendril Nova

Now heals you for 1% 5% of your health per target hit and reduces damage dealt to 225% weapon damage as Physical apply 350% of your Thorns damage. In addition, when Tendril Nova restores Life above your maximum, the excess is granted over 3 seconds.

Explainer

  • Increase healing, with a Requiem Cereplate effect
  • Now applies Thorns damage
  • Pairable with Trag’Oul’s Corroded Fang and Bloodtide Blade

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Corpse Explosion / Shrapnel

Corpses now explode away from you, hitting all targets in a cone.
Now explodes up to 60 corpses. Each corpse explosion deals 85% of your Thorns.
Corpse Explosion’s damage turns into Poison.

Explainer

  • Real Shrapnel effect: a multitude of small explosions
  • Support skill: Not a weapon damage dealer, but a hit dealer and a massive corpse consumer
  • More corpses exploded means more hits: Mirinae, Wreath of Lightning, all items based on hit
  • More corpses consumed means more Lances shot from Pestilence (equals to x3 Devour), instant cooldown for Bone Spirit, even for Poltergeist rune (4 charges x 15s = 60 corpses)
  • Full power when combined with Land of the Dead (because you need 60 corpses)
  • Thorns damage dealer, for fun and gameplay (active Thorns rather than passive)
  • Thorns / Poison skill synergizes with Nayr’s Black Death
  • Corpse Explosion synergizes with Grasps of Essence, The JohnStone

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Avarice Band

Each time you pick up gold, or kill an ennemy, increase your Gold and Health Pickup radius by 1 yard for 10 seconds, stacking up to 30 times.

Explainer

  • Usable in Greater Rifts
  • Pairable with Haunted Visions + Simulacrum / Cursed Form (and Frailty / Aura of Frailty) + Spear of Jairo (More radius = more monsters afflicted = more increased Thorns)

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Revive

Target an area reviving up to 18 corpses within 20 yards for 15 seconds.

Explainer

  • Improve Thorns surface area (thus Thorns damage)
  • Revive / Purgatory allows minions to degenerate back into a usable corpse at the end of their duration. This makes 10 corpses available for Revive. Command Golem / Flesh Golem collapses into a pile of 8 corpses. That makes another 8 corpses available for Revive. Total: 10 + 8 = 18 corpses available for Revive.

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Haunted Visions

Revive and Simulacrum now drain 1% of your maximum life every second and last forever. Simulacrums can now duplicate Grim Scythe instead of Skeletal Mage.

Explainer

  • Allow permanent Revived creatures (until monsters kill them)
  • Allow Trag’Oul’s Avatar to buff Revive (whatever the rune is)

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Decrepify / Borrowed Time

Gain 1% cooldown reduction for every enemy afflicted by one of your curses, up to a maximum of 20 15% per curse.

Explainer

  • 15% max cooldown per curse (max : 3 x 15% = 45%)
  • Reward usage of multiple curses
  • Pairable with Haunted Visions + Simulacrum / Cursed Form (and Frailty / Aura of Frailty)
  • Alternative mechanic to Captain Crimson’s Silk set

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Bloodsong mail

Land of Plenty gains the effect of Invigoration and Shallow Graves runes, but corpse skills cannot be used at will. While in the Land of the Dead Land of Plenty, Command Skeletons and Revive deals 110 1100% additional damage, and Command Skeletons gains the effect of the Enforcer, Frenzy, Dark Mending and Freezing Grasp runes, minions gain 100% increased attack speed, and each hit from minions has 100% chance to reduce by 1 second the cooldown of Land of Plenty.

Explainer

  • Land of Plenty is the last rune, thus deserves consideration
  • Invigoration + Shallow Graves runes = Spam Command Skeletons
  • Main effect of Land of the Dead (Corpse skills at will) is disabled to prevent abuse
  • Multiply by 10x the damage bonus to make it usable
  • Extend damage bonus to Revived Creatures
  • Remove freezing, which is not compatible with Thorns
  • Improve minions attack speed, while in Land of Plenty
  • Grants Land of Plenty cooldown reduction on hit, while in Land of Plenty
  • Must hit & kill ennemies in Lands of Plenty to maintain Lands of Plenty 100% uptime

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The Johnstone

When Land of the Dead expires, you are granted 50 stacks of Macabre Knowledge. Macabre Knowledge increases the damage of Command Golem, Command Skeletons, Revive, Corpse Lance and Corpse Explosion by 150-200%.

Explainer

  • Another source of damage for Command Skeletons & Revive
  • 1 hit = 1 stack spent

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Command Skeletons / Dark Mending

Skeletal minions will heal you for 0.5 1% of your total health per hit while being commanded, at the cost of 1% health.

Explainer

  • Improve total health regeneration
  • Synergize with Bloodsong mail that triggers Dark Mending
  • Spend life to allow Trag’Oul’s Avatar to buff this skill (both life regeneration and damage)

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Trag’Oul’s Avatar

(6) Set: Your Life-spending abilities double triggers, deal 3800% increased damage and your healing from skills is increased by 100%.

Explainer

  • Double triggers
  • Double Frailty / Early Grave trigger
  • Game changer, Trag’Oul’s Avatar is back

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Frailty / Early Grave

Triggers at 18% life but costs 10% of your life.

Explainer

  • Trag’Oul’s Avatar now buffs this rune (2 x 18% = 36%).
  • Show the trigger value in the skills bar: 18% or 36%

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Ideally

  • 1 item accessible at level 1 (ex: Hack / The Butcher’s Sickle)
  • 1 item accessible at level 20 (ex: Heart of Iron)
  • 1 item accessible at level 40 (ex: Bloodsong mail)
  • 1 item accessible at level 60 (ex: Vo’toyias Spiker / Spear of Jairo)

So we can enjoy cubing them while leveling

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See also

9 Likes
2

Instead of Gain 300% increased Thorns because thats kinda op in mo. Maybe change that to 100% so Thorns is doubled? Or Gain Thorns equal to 30% of your current Maximum Life. Which would work with all characters, Vitality and skills that increase life. But yeah they need to fix Thorns gameplay badly. There’s like 3 builds that could be fixed just by changing Heart of Iron alone.

3

Does need fixed
 I have a Crusader with insane amount of “vitality” and it still can’t do GR100, lol. Why vit? because it boosts Thorns. something just seems off/ about the whole thing. The suggestions you have a mostly geared towards Necromancer but those changes don’t help other classes with Thorns Build.
IMO - the “Thorns Legendary Gem” should act like like Bane of Stricken where it’s increase by % for each hit. ~that’d help~

Edit: What would also help is to SLOW down how fast thorns is removed. meaning if you hold “thorns” stacks for longer, you can have more of them.
EG: If you lose thorns stacks every 3 seconds you could only get like +10
If you could hold on to thorns stacks for 9 seconds you could get +30.

1 Like
4

Some improvements could be directly applied on Heart of Iron, so Crusaders would be able to join the party. Like this:

–

Heart of Iron

Gain 300% increased Thorns. Taunt enemies in a 15 yards radius. Ennemies attack speed is increased by 500%.

Explainer

  • Provide a flat Thorns bonus
  • Not based on Vitality (which is useless for Crusaders, Necromancers, etc.)
  • Greatly improve monsters attack speed. Force monsters to attack. Spend less time to wait for monsters to attack. Deliver Thorns faster.

–

Your suggested and alternative gameplay based on Thorns stacks is also a good option. Although it requires a little more work from developers.

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Numbers surely would need ajustment.

Another option could be xxx% increased physical damage. It would have wider implications. Thorns would be affected, but not only. Thinking about Visceral Impact, Blood Lance, 
etc.

5

Here:
https:// diablo. fandom. com/wiki/Thorns_(Diablo_III)
Remove the spaces


Quoted:

At level 70, most items can roll up to 2800 Thorns damage, while helms, chests, amulets, pauldrons and belts can roll up to 7696, to a total of 58080 on all slots except main and off hands (73492 with weapons and shields). With Ancient Legendary items, these values can go up to 75504 / 95540. A Topaz gem in the weapon [socket] can also add up to 38000 damage to Thorns. +999 / 6000 Thorns damage can be gained from [Demon’s Hide] / [Demon’s Skin] sets.

None of these numbers are remotely close to 1 million and getting a million damage for pretty much any other build is really easy


6

Or, provide the link in a usable form


  1. Copy the URL to the clipboard
  2. Paste the URL into your forum post
  3. Highlight the URL in your post
  4. Click the </> button in the editor
  5. This will turn your URL into pre-formatted text
  6. Whilst not clickable, the URL will be properly formatted so others can copy / paste it like this
 https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Thorns_(Diablo_III)

Non-thorns builds have their damage scaled against weapon damage. A primal one-handed weapon will have roughly 3100 damage per second.

Thorns builds have their damage scalled against their thorns value. A well rolled thorns hero will have around 300,000 thorns. That’s why the multipliers aren’t the same for thorns, as the base number they’re multiplying is already 1000 times bigger than weapon damage.

7

got it. Thanks. :rofl:

8

Update with

  • Vo’toyias Spiker
  • Bloodsong mail
  • Hack
  • Command Skeletons / Dark Mending
  • Trag’Oul’s Avatar
  • Frailty / Early Grave
  • The Butcher’s Sickle