idk… i still don’t understand what you wanted to say
Jesus you’re just not a happy person. I feel sorry for you.
I did note that I don’t mind if they deleted paladin. Maybe it was a different thread. I just think that java and light are superior builds. Your argument that they cost more sure, but after infinity is a thing, those two classes are actually better than hdin, they also take more skill.
I truthfully don’t know how you nerf hdin without nerfing it into the ground. If they take away the conc bonus, the class does no damage. HS kills FOH + Smite so you can’t do that. Taking free resists off shields also doesn’t work. And we all know Activision is awful at these balance changes so they’re bound to mess it up anyway.
But then again why not just nerf hammers into the ground. Class has been one of the top classes for 20 years, maybe then they could focus on actually buffing the weak classes.
It’ll be interesting to see what their plan is, since we are only speculating it will be an outright Hammerdin nerf. We should know within the next week or two I expect, as I do figure that they will go ahead and push back their internal dates for 2.5 and Ladder in order to test this in another PTR, along with the other changes that they will be doing to Terror Zones.
To be honest, I never expected the devs to actually consider nerfs. However, I believe that they are seeing that there are severe limitations to additional content being added if they leave that thing running wild as is. I wouldn’t be against culling back on some of the synergies, which would cut down on overall damage numbers, while removing some of the hard immunities from the game. Sort of get balanced to be a blend of 1.09 and current. I have no issue in builds being able to solo players 8 if they are in best in slot, high end gear, but reigning in the balance from budget players 8 solo builds is a good thing.
People have issues with hammerdin not only because it’s been op for 20 years but because it can easily clear any area from the new terror zones.
So, since they are introducing “new content” into the game that is giving you bonus xp and a chance to drop any item in the game, they should balance the only build that can clear any of these zones with ease from d1.
One way of doing this is to add magic immunity into some of the terror zones. The rest remains the same. Now paladins can’t clear all zones with ease, problem solved.
Yes, I know that there are 2-3 more builds that will be affected by this change, but any build should have some immunities in some of these zones.
Oh I fully agree that hammerdin should have to face more immunties.
But I also think that if infinity is going to work for lightsorc/java with breaking immunities then Cold/Fire/Magic all deserve their own version of infinity or conviction should maybe do them all if that isn’t too ground breaking? Probably is cuz everyone would race the same item.
That being said hdin/light/java all 3 can run the map. A fully decked out blizz sorc or fire druid can’t clear every zone NO MATTER WHAT. Maybe the solution is to rework conviction and breaking immunties as well? My point was more-so that java/light sorcs are easily on par with a hdin, and while yes hdin should have to face more, you’re now just funneling everyone into java/light which isn’t any better. So either break certain portions of the map for everyone or make it so that every class can break immunities, but that monster dies super slowly and maybe even reflects damage if immunity is broken or something so they’re trickier to kill.
It’s easy to refute all valid responses if you arbitrarily dismiss them. This strategy only saves your argument from holes in your own mind, for anyone else reading, it blows your argument apart.
Being able to break any immunity is a completely different topic.
The right way of doing this is by introducing another type of “infinity”, maybe in unique items or new runewords. Who knows…
All I’m saying and many people will agree, is that the main reason hammerdin is OP is not just the high damage output but the lack of any immunes throughout the whole game (except some in a2)
just read the whole topic and you will see how i gave already a lot of arguments and solutions, on other hand all those people only say
balance balance balance balance
without 0 arguments and solutions.
it’s easy to quote a fragment of a whole “book” and say “oh this is bad”
Hammerdin faces almost no immunities yup. Light sorcs wind up taking over when they break immunties down and that their spell is better than hammers IMO (you get to target fire enemies which IMO is better). Regardless both have an option to full clear which either should be there for everyone or it should be there for nobody. I’m actually of the mindset that everyone should have some areas that they cannot complete, BUT that does create an issue for single player chars, BUT if they can go hybrid and complete the game, they can just choose not to go to those areas every again after they respec which is okay.
Hdin is OP for far too many reasons, I wouldn’t limit it to just not having to face immunes.
Your misconception is that hammerdins are somehow only slightly more powerful than most other builds/classes. The reality is, they are obscenely a world apart, and this collapses the diversity of playability, which as you might know is the main attribute to any game’s longevity. Currently in ladder, hammerdins are overwhelmingly used for a myriad of purposes due to their insane survivability and damage. What would people win you ask? People would win being able to play the game differently after 20 years.
There currently isn’t a choice, something you seem remiss to acknowledge. If you wish to competitive, hammerdins are the only real option in terms of farming. Until you realize what people are “winning” is a break from the same formula, you will continue to miss the gist of responses.
let’s just imagine just for once, for this moment that there were not inmunes in the game.
Witch character you will do a sorc or a pala hammer?
i hope that with your answer you realize where’s the main problem.
“Hey, lets talk about hammerdins being overpowered…”
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Sorc hands down. Even if you removed teleport I’d still play sorc.
You keep presenting false questions and “whataboutism” and “ifs”.
Your arguments do not stem from reality. The reality is, hammerdins are obscenely overtuned, have been for nearly 2 decades and it’s time they were fixed. How will they fix them? I know not. I personally abhor nerfs, but in this case it is necessary.
obviously, by far, anyone that choice pala hammer over sorc in those circustances don’t know nothing about the game.
Fair comparison, lol.
It doesn’t matter what the hornets want, the storm is coming. There are only two real solutions to the hammerdin problem.
- Nerf hammerdins
OR
- Buff everyone else
Which would make the game far to easy. It’s safe to say what’s coming down the line, whether they like it or not. Given how fast most other games rotate out their metas and hotpatch “balance” issues, nearly 20 years is enough. It’s enough.
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If they aim to keep power creep in check, then there is only one clear solution.
Lol yes nerf hammerdin but leave light sorc and javazon and every other OP build. Makes perfect sense. Rules for thee but not for me. Hammerdins were already nerfed, used to be Hammers would go through magic immunity of undead (wave 2 was no problem). To nerf it further would just be stupid and essentially erase the build from existence, which FoH has sorta done in many ways already. Please don’t be stupid, Blizz. And I’m not even a hammerdin player btw.
You are being disingenuous.
Javazon and light sorc have no where near the farming versatility nor survivability of a hammerdin. They are OP in what they do, but the catch is, unlike hammerdins, they don’t do everything.
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No I’m not. If you really think light sorcs dont already do everything, you are the one being disingenuous. If hammerdins hit the entire screen instantly like light sorcs do, I’d give you a point.