(PTR PvP Feedback) About fast hit recovery, wanna roll-back this changes

PTR Feedback
42

Pvp purists : we need WSG because stuns are big issue **Blizzard removing WSG** PvP purists crying and demanding WSG back because of stuns **Blizzard introducing nerf to stuns** PvP purists complaining about stuns not stunning enough.

pretty accurate.
pvp players warned blizz that stuns would be imbalanced without a manual escape
instead blizzard tries to make a blanket nerf to all stun, which is far worse for pvp, now players once again are trying to say something.

with wsg at least there was the human element.
players had to react to stun and manually get out. the nature of wsg also made it a risk if your swap side had different gear or you had a different skill hotkeyed. (in wsg often players will leave tele on the other side to wsg tele)
there was a human element which could lead to human error. players could still fight against wsg even though it could theoretically get out of any stun.

this is just… idk what to say about it.
its an automatic wsg type escape that takes no player input, does not require leaving your main weapon. you can just cast through stun now.

testing on PTR with 0fhr/0fcr a player could escape 5x traps + nonstop mindblast after the first mb cast every single time.

on PTR an assassin has no options to follow up a mindblast namelock.
if they tele on the player, fb/melee or whatever will not hold a player.

this completely kills fireblast for trappers, and trappers are in a much worse place despite having 20 more skill points to play with because they can not use fireblast to hold casters at melee.
someone can just cast through it and kill them if they try to telestomp on trapper now.

MA sins, while they definitely needed MA finishers to be adjusted back to blockable and AR based, are now going to be in a far worse place than they ever were on LoD… kicksins were always considered low tier, and the only thing that made them viable was following up stun with telestomps, which won’t work anymore.

2 Likes
43

This update is a total disaster.

Character hit recovery will now have diminishing returns when being hit by another player.

Developer Comments: We want to fix some of the awkward lockouts that reject player input from casting skills. For PVP, we added a way to reduce hit recovery spam to prevent edge cases of characters being locked out for too long.

At first, you removed “Weapon Swith Feature/glitch” in D2R that allowed players with some skills (spamming swith) to escape stun. It was actualy challenging and balanced to duel stun characters such as Trapsin, Barb (leap, warcry), Hammerdin/Smiter with smite foh.

But now, with this new system. FHR is totaly useless and most likely removed from the game. Every stun character is garbage. The game, that was actualy tactical and fun, will just be a random shoot and run.

Keep the update like that and you lose 90% of the pvp player base (a.k.a. the players that plays your game in the long run).

DHA

5 Likes
44

Shoulda been left alone, we have ways to get out… charge, leap south walk etc. Was fine the way it was. Now classes have less presence in the blood Moore kinda sad to see this change. Don’t even need fhr now might as well remove it from the game

45

to be honest, when I first read “diminishing returns” on stun to remove “edge cases” of permastun, I was intrigued, and wanted to see it in action.
stun definitely needs some adjustment.

what we got was NOT diminishing returns of edge cases.

instead we have a sharp drop from 1xmindblast stun to NO stun from anything following up.
its not possible to do a basic mindblast>teleport>fireblast chain anymore.
this was assassin bread and butter…
now the opponent can just cast through any followup stun.

where is the concept of “diminishing returns”?
this looks like a flat drop to stun not working after 1x cast.

when I first heard diminishing returns, I thought it might be on a timer or get easier to escape the longer someone is in stun, which would make sense, people shouldn’t be held in permastun indefinitely.
if someone is in stun for 3+ seconds, sure they should be able to get out
but this is just an instant escape after any stun… not permastun, just escape from any followup even the tiniest of stun…

I really hope this is just a mistake in ptr and devs are going to adjust stun before this goes live.

1 Like
46

Yep I agree with this. Actual diminishing returns could be something good like you said, but not instant FHR immunity to any followup attack like is currently the state in PTR.

1 Like
47

Because we want diminishing FHR, not immunity from stun

48

I completely and utterly agree.

Please make it diminishing, NOT IMMUNE. Kind of like you said? This will totally destroy pvp and dumb down the game. It is so simple, just make it DIMINISHING…not immune every few seconds or so.

49

You are so right!
This patch must be a disaster.
FHR by stun is also irrelevant in PVM.

1 Like
50

And I want to ask you what you think of my opinion.

my suggestion is to increase the damage of the Bone Spear and lower the damage of the Bone Spirit.
And, Lowering the skill division of bone spirit to 8.
Cause, It’s FHR-induced probability is too high.
And also, don’t ruin the FHR system

And another opinion, down-regulate the paladin charge skill.
If you using charge while the character is walking mode, you can maintain both defense and block rate.
Also, if you use the wheel wind in the direction you are running away, can be damaged by the charge skill.
This is extremely lethal for barbarians and assassins.

1 Like
51

I think so too, plz stop blizzard

52

Well, the Bones nec buff was not needed at all indeed. But from what i’ve seen it’s not such a big deal anyway. Necro was top tier and will be even stronger.

Real problem with this patch is Trapsin downgraded from Top tiers to useless.

Fire Auradin are so stupidly overpowered.
Blaze sorc is broken. Sorc runs faster than vigor’d zon. The frw buff should be reworked a little.
Were bear/wolf got a huge nerf (like -100%ias). Source : Druid WW and WB Attack Speed Changes
Whirlwind still not fixed : [2.4 Patch] WW Barbarian is still Bugged & Unplayable - #90 by Razor-1833

And much more…

2 Likes
53

I somewhat agree with what you said.
The best predator of the best, so any further buffs are a disaster.
Nec has an overwhelming performance against all characters except druids.

I think bone spear, which can only perform by snatching the opposing character, should have a higher chance of triggering FHR than bone spirit.

54

Well first, i want to say that its nice to see Blizzard showing some direct interest for PvP.
Its even better to see them adressing a undeniable problem with the stun lock. With the remove of WSG, stunlocks reign supprems in tvt and Assassins are currently a little too strong.
However, the planned hit recovery change is just no good. It doesnt “fix” the stunlock problem, it destroy totaly stunlocks.

So yes, it would nerf assassin. Yes, it would make tvt less fustrating

BUT :

Its important to understand Stunlock isnt a tool only used by Assassins or Barbarians in Team vs Team. Its a base mechanic of PvP for almost every classes. When a Necromancer, a Smiter, a Wind Druid or even a Sorceress aggressively chainlock their target, they are expecting Hit Recovery anime to provide a cover for them, to prevent their foes to react easily and to kill them in return. While long stunlock are indeed mostly an Assassins things, short stunlock are used by every classes and promote flashy, aggressive plays.

By removing stunlock, you are promoting defensive play. ES sorc in particular are going to be almost invicible, as their only counterplay currently are stunlock and openwound.

Rather than making the game less frustrating, you are making it unfun and less skilled. There is currently people who are playing diablo 2 pvp non stop since 2006 or so who are planing to quite the game because of that change, and i think its tell a lot.

Rather than nuking down the whole pvp to fix the stunlock problem, i think it would be better to attack the issue with more targeted change. Start by nerfing assassins effectiveness a bit : remove or diminush the capacity of the shadow master to spam mindblast (wont impact pvm in the slightest) and remove the auto aim function of the psy hammer (wont impact pvm either). Also, you already did a step in the good direction by making finishers skills could be blocked and avoided. But dont destroy the core gameplay mechanic that shape a good part of D2 PvP.

Also, I think Blizzard would do good to take some high lvl pvpers as consultants for that sort of change. Those guys played and still play the game for so long, they both love it and know it more than anyone. Having their experience on board could only make things better.

/eddit, soz i kinda did a double post, this one wasnt showing for some reason so i wrote it again later. I’ll leave it as i said slitly different things in my second post

1 Like
55

Its nice to see blizzard show some direct interest in pvp, but that change is going too far. Yes its going to nerf assassins and yes it will make long stunlock less frustrating in tvt, but its important to understand it changes faaaar more than that.

Stunlock is a base mechanic of PvP for almost every classes. When a Necromancer, a Smiter, a Wind Druid or even a Sorceress aggressively chainlock their target, they are expecting Hit Recovery anime to provide a cover for them, to prevent their foes to react easily and to kill them in return. While long stunlock are indeed mostly an Assassins things, short stunlock are used by every classes and promote flashy, aggressive plays. By nuking stunlock with this change, you are basicaly promoting defensive gameplay, and es sorc in particular. Maybe its make the game a bit less frustrating, but it also makes it 100% less fun, less skilled, and less plaisant to play or to watch.

Instead of destroying d2 pvp as it is now, Blizzard should aim for more carefull, targeted changes. It would also be a great idea to take some top pvpers as consultants. These guys love and know the game more than anyone, and having them on board could only make things go better.

2 Likes
56

Couldnt they just lower the stun effectiveness for skills only when used on another player in pvp? Should be the smartest solution.

57

When I first heard ‘diminishing returns’ I was stoked. Maybe it would work like WoW pvp where the first stun is 100% duration, then each successive stun is 1/2 of that, until after 3-4 stuns, you go immune until an internal 10 sec (or something) resets. Rinse repeat. This is a great system that promotes good communication, timing, and coordination either on an individual level or even more so on a team.

That is the change I want and is what diminishing returns means. Diminishing returns DOES NOT mean having a flat chance of failing to stun when using a skill that specifically stuns.

Please do not implement the changes to FHR as they are now and instead approach it like a real definition of ‘diminishing returns’. You have a great example (WoW pvp) to draw from. Come on! Do better!

58

Blizzard, stop trying to ruin the game that has so many players simply because it hasn’t been ruined by you yet. Seriously. Stop pandering to the “new game must have meta changes” bs hype. D2 was successful for so long because it was just a good game. Don’t ruin it to try and “shake things up”

1 Like
59

WSG actually required player input aka some semblance of a brain to use.

1 Like
60

Brain you mean smashing W i guess?

61

Reaction time you know, kind of an important part of pvp

1 Like