Enhanced Damage Doesnt work on vengeance on non weapon items. Why do this to an already weak skill 
Too many points need to be invested in vengeance to make suck less. It still sucks after maxed out.
Some Options, Nothing too OP :
also grief doesnt work with vengeance.
EDIT: btwâŚVengeance dmg is base on weapon dmg(Ethereal Archon Staff Botd is what make Vengeance do the most ele dmg(6-7k to all)âŚbut 2H weapons are awfull
Enhanced dmg from Auras,non-weapon pieces of gear do not boost Vengeance dmg furthe)âŚother Weaps u could use on maxroll simu is Eth Death and Eth PheonixâŚbut those are crappy IASâŚEDIT END
you knowâŚperf timing this threadâŚi just finished a re-design of it(technicly iâam at 2 design)âŚthe new one i worked on was because i forgot my wishlist version XD
but ehâŚhereâŚi let you see both designs
DESIGN 1
Vengeance: Cold,Fire and Light Resistance removed as Synergies
Salvation is now the sole Synergy to Veangence(from 2% Synergy to 32% Synergy)
Vengeance Ele damage addition doubled from the current power
adding a mobbing effect to Vengeance so that it be viableâŚi have 2 option in mind
in that regardâŚthe first would be
1.to hit all enemies in front of the pally(1 yard range + weapon range adder
2.make it proc at 50% rate EACH Fire Balls,Ice Blast(Vengeance version that would work
alike to multishot by releasing 8 Ice Blast in different direction) and Lightning Bolts(14 Bolts)
these procs levels would be equal to Vengeance level
DESIGN 2(new one i worked on)
VENGEANCE
Salvation Synergy removed
Vengeance elemental damage doubled
Vengeance have a 50% Chance to release 5 Charged Bolts dealing dmg equal to Vengeance Lightning dmg
Vengeance have a 40% Chance to release Ice Bolts Shot in All Directions dealing dmg equal to Cold dmg
Vengeance have a 30% Chance to Summon an Hydra Dealing dmg Equal to Vengeance Fire dmg
create the following Weapon and Shield just for Vengeance Build
Weapon(Unique Caduceus(alway spawn as Ethereal))
lvl 15 Fanatism Aura
-2 to All Skills
500% Enhanced dmg
-50% enemy target Def
+50% Increased Attack Speed
-100% Crushing Blow(yes negative CB)
-100% Deadly Strike(yes also negative DS)
+15% Chance to Open Wounds
Indestructible
Shield(Unique Vortex Shield)(Paladin ONLY)
+100-130% Enhanced Defense
-2 to All Skills(yes minus skills)
+400% Enhanced dmg
+30% Faster Block Rate
+20% Increased Chance to Block
+35% to All Elements dmg
Negate all Enemies Resists by -30%
Yes⌠Iâve been playing vengeance since 1.08.
I really like the idea of negative ds and cb. Iâd love to see somethings like that.
As for design, I dont like the idea of chance to cast spell, there is already too much of that in the game.
What Iâd like to see are small changes. Vengeance mainly struggles aoe, But its fine not adding that. As it is suppose to be a strong 1 hit with all elementals.
Vengeance also struggles from
Support!
Hustle with level9 BoS could be a EIAS buff mechine, but âŚ
well aternative to splash///proc on hit effectâŚthere only massive FRW to make it more efficiency for dealing with mass mobs as well as reduced amount of Frames per attack down even furtherâŚsimilar to Frenzy BarbâŚexcept that instead of heavy physical dmgâŚVengeance is all type dmg
EDIT: btwâŚiâam kin of curious how fast a Frenzy barb with 100% FRW from gear + Hustle BoS Frw + Frenzy frw gonna runâŚskills dont share diminishing return with gearâŚit has its own curve
My spicy hot take is Vengeance should just trigger the AOE/pulse effect of any âHoly [element]â aura you have active on striking.
that would Sacrifice Conviction which boost Elementals dmg by 3XâŚnot worth it :S
What i did for Vengeance in my D2R mod is that I made synergies stronger so you dont have to invest into all of them, I made it always hits and its great in combination with holy fire/freeze/shock as they have -% enemy resist to their element. So you can specialize and become true cold warrior for example, focusing only cold synergy on vengeance + using holy freeze with -% enemy cold resist.
And I also significantly lowered mana cost so its usable early.
Get rid of salvation synergy and merge the bonus into the main skill. This would help people who are both maining vengeance and those who are using it as a backup against physical immune.
Vengeance never felt really great since D2 was originally released, even with a godly weapon and you need tons of physical damage already to leech properlyâŚso this could definitely receive a decent buff. Also thereâs too much synergies which make vengeance builds very limited and weak.
Here you go
Fixed
Other Vengeance problems.
These kind of interactions doesnt leave many choices with vengeance.
Anyways⌠I hope there are balance skill changes in 2.6 (even if there arent any changes to vengeance).
I like Jmanâs idea here of merging the Salvation synergy into the skill itself, otherwise the build is stretched quite thin on skill points.
I also agree that Vengeance should benefit from offweapon ED% from auras and items, though Iâm not sure if it should benefit from deadly/critical strike. I like that itâs not a primary/required stat so it does open up some options instead of the usual Highlordâs/Gface/Gores meta for physical characters.
I think the mana cost could be reduced as well, currently it costs 4 mana at level 1 and increases by .25 per level which is somewhat costly in the early/mid game before you get decent mana leech/regen (or Redemption). Reducing it down to 3 mana at level 1 and reducing the per level to .125 might be a good move I think.
yeah i agree. Its fine ds cb doesnt work. It shouldnt work. I was just pointing out that there was a lot of stats that dont directly work.
Iâm not sure if I even want to see grief working with vengeance. (then there will be no other choice but to use grief, I mean nothing would come even remotely close)
Totally agree with that.
as mention in the first post, instead of just adding more dmg
When I Season 3 was announced I decided to try a Vengeance paladin.
I will try to finish the game, but with all those previous posts you make it sound like it is hopeless
Vengeance always felt like a cheap 1 point wonder for auradins/ zealers who spec into holy freeze/fire etc.
Itâs not a bad 1 pointer on a zealer as long as you use an ebotdz or deathz.
I hope the base value can calculate the off weapon ED. Just like magic arrow.
i guess we wait 4 more months⌠to get disappointed.
With the addition of sunder charms last season, I really wanted to run a vengeance pally this season. I ran through the typical paladin leveling, fire aura to hammerdin. I respecâed to vengeance thinking âoh even at 20% efficacy from sundered enemies, vengeance will still slap with a base 20 conviction auraâ.
Boy was I wrong. The fact vengeance only is applied to on weapon ED severely impacts itâs usability. I originally did a bunch of calculations on damage with 2 handed weapons because of that on weapon ED restriction. The problem is, vengeance has zero crowd control, and 2-handed weapons means you canât run holy shield. Without crowd control of AOE, and the capability of max block, itâs darn hard to survive. Also, attack speed is garbage on vengeance.
First decent on weapon ED 2-H i made was obedience on a mancatcher, even with a fire sunder charm, maxâed conviction and enchant procâed, most trash mob couldnât be one shot, and youâre surrounded before you can clear them out or get to the target uniques.
Respecâed into max block with a shield with 4 perf diamonds to run 3 sunders. Survivability is fine considering you can get 95% elemental resistance on most elements with the passive increase of resist lightning/fire/cold, the problem is that its not really all that survivable still because the lack of crowd control.
With the switch to one-handed weapons, it limits the damage output considerably. Thereâs very few available weapons that can be effective because of on weapon ED restriction, n top of that, even grief doesnât apply itâs off weapon raw damage to the calculator. On top of that, even though conviction lowers target defense, and upping dex for max block, the weapon range makes you wiff on swings more than I anticipated.
One good thing about all this is that I have had a new appreciation for the Act 3 merc, esp. the lightning one. Dude is surprisingly good at crowd control. A lot more effective than both the Act1 and Act 2 once theyâve got some decent FCR. However, the problem with running an act 3 merc for that purpose is that is that you canât run insight, and vengeance is a huge mana suck.
Im on a hunt to get a stormlash now, it seems itâs the only thing thatâs got crowd control with the static field proc, good ED, fast attack speed, and crushing blow for bosses.
Iâm not gonna go into what I would do to change vengeance specifically to make it effective, other people have posted some effective specifics in that regard thereâs just too much to get into the specifics of it for me, but the problems that need to be addressed:
Itâs not crowd control per se but converted monsters make for very good meatshields, just get 1 or 2 converts and theyâll take a lot of the heat off you and your merc.