Well, people smarter than me with currency and how to copy the jsp coin model to make it sustainable, is whom I would task on this!
I think that might be what I’m thinking. The biggest issue with a BC isn’t that it is a bad idea, but that it wasn’t the first and it is untested. They would have to create a market, implement BC, and prevent outside trading of any type to make BC hold value. Thats a lot of work for a 20 year old game. Not only that but it would still be susceptible to outside currency because I could list one EL rune for 10 million BC. Still undermining the value of BC.
The game systems that have a money system that works tend to have them implemented from the beginning, but a quick look through on JSP and you can trade for money in any game. It just makes it all tricky especially because of how many people are used to fg and D2.
Overall though I really don’t think D2R needs a BC or a market. They need a ladder reset, update unqiues and sets that aren’t used, a new class, actual new content, stackable runes/currency tab, unlimited mules, and a charm inventory. They shouldn’t even worry about JSP or FG. In fact Blizzard should endorse JSP so people stop complaining about it. They did what Blizzard didn’t think to do and did it well. Why even bother messing with it just approve of it and do better in D4 (they won’t). Hopefully once microsoft buys out Acti they can turn blizzard back around and start making good games again. Maybe by D5 they’ll get rid of the Acti influence.
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Actually the only way Blizzard ever implements BlizzGold is if they sell the bg just like JSP sells fg. This would be a recurring revenue stream for D2R and one that is fully sanctioned by Blizzard.
Of course they need a bg bank for your account and allow trades to be completed using bg. And a way to purchase more bg. That’s it.
Too many would complain about P2WIN for that to happen right? Even if you could cash out on BG I’m not sure it wouldn’t be a crap storm. Also there has to be an initial influx of a way to earn BG for free for it to ever be used as currency. If there are only ever 5 BG coins in circulation nobody would consider using it.
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it is possible to do trade system item vs item or make new currency stackable item that drops and can be used in market(nontradable ingame to prevent irl trade)
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choosing not to doesnt mean they cant
you seen to have a very short memory
its the userbase who is violating blizz IP
i dont even think jsp has an EIN to be legally responsible (if such is needed), its owners are the ones who would be found guilty of “crime facilitation” and “criminal conspiracy” in a court case
your attempts to offend me are pitiful
I am a constitutionalist at heart but the supreme court here is making sure to tear apart our constitution
thats exactly what im asking when i say “we need an AH with no buyout option and no trades outside it” and in my opinion runes are already good enough as currency and the best thing is that runes in itself are a control against inflation since they are consumed when used in rw and wont return to the market as runes
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Hanz, there is no billion dollar company that would let JSP do what they’re doing if it were indeed against the rules. They’ve gone against people selling cheats. They’ve gone after tournaments. They’ve gone against pirates. Most of those didn’t gain them any money in the rulings, but they still did it. Meanwhile JSP is worth some dollars at the very least and they just are like, “Nah let’s not do this one in particular”. You can’t see the error in that logic? It wouldn’t even be some international fight or some hidden face on the dark web. The company is registered. owner is out front.
They couldn’t be caught on any sort of consipracy or facilitation. That would involve knowing what the forum gold specifically was being used for. Again which would lead back to a civil suit at best UNLESS someone ignored a judges ruling or a cease and desist letter. And you’re sitting here still arguing about all the legality of everything and still can’t explain why they wouldn’t go after JSP. You can attempt to trap them in some arguement where maybe you find a way you think might work, but there is a reason why you buy fg with donations and it isn’t a straight cash transfer. There is a reason why they stopped making the bot as well, that got them into actual trouble and so they followed the rules.
The supreme court in brazil is tearing apart Brazilian consitution or or US? I’m guessing you mean US, in which case, fully agreed.
To you note towards annihilation. Even an AH in game with zero chance of buyout outside of game would still have easy outside influence. I post EL for perfect COA on the marketplace. Site selling perfect COA buys my EL rune after I send them 50 cash. Same thing happens with fg. (not saying I do this, just saying there is a clear/easy way around it)
Pretty much as other have said. Here’s an example:
Let’s say you find a Shako. You put up a post labeled FT (for trade) and list the stats. You can state what you want to sell it for (a BIN, or ‘buy it now’ price) or let people make offers. For simplicity’s sake, lets say you put a bin of 100 fg (near the start of ladder).
A person will post saying they want to buy. You send them a message giving them your game name and password. You meet up in game. They send you the forum gold on the jsp website and you trade them the item.
For popular items, the whole process from listing to trade can be done in a few minutes. At the start of the first ladder, there were about five pages of posts edited in the last minute.
The best part is that the listings are easily searchable. If you want to buy a Shako, you type that in and look in the FT section. That will give you all the people with one for sale, and some older ones so you can see their prices and what they sold for.
It works really, really well. There’s a reason pretty much all human societies larger than a village use some form of currency instead of trying to barter for everything.
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Here’s the part all you armchair lawyers are missing:
the JSP website CANNOT break Blizzard’s TOS because they are not a party to it. If Blizz wanted to, they could go after the players using it, but they have no authority to stop another website facilitating trades.
lets settle this way
you see a hard case to win
i see a easy one
we just dont know the specifics
i worked for a company that had the contract and legal authorization to interrupt the water supply for any residence that was with a delay of at least one month in the payment of the water bill, but we would only do it if it was a 3 months delay or more
the public didnt and still dont know why we worked this way but there was a justification for that
the same aplies to blizz, we just dont know their justification but the authorization, imo, is crystal clear
all blizz would need is a “search and seizure” for their servers data-base and to get that all its needed is “probable cause” and their website is publicly full of that
it was just a comment about what is happening here in brazil with the brazilian constitution, i dont know a thing about the US supreme court but ive been reading about whats happening there and yeah, i agree it doesnt look good
in my suggestion…
players are only allowed to post items or runes for runes
but even if you post a COA, with a outside deal, and the buyer will try to buy it for an El, as there is no BIN the buyer will be running the risk of having his offer surpassed by another offering a Sur
in other words, the buyer would not be assured of receiving the item he purchased from you in a deal outside of AH
I’ve been through this with shhno1cares
my theory is:
“jsp” cannot be sued for IP violation
but their owners can be sued for “crime facilitation” for facilitating the IP violation by their users and for “criminal conspiracy” since it is a group of people(owners) committing the same crime together
Only the plebs needs FG for easy mode .
I’m not saying I see a hard case to win. I’m seeing a case they have no legal authority to bring forward. You see an easy one, if it were easy, and they already have lawyers that work for them full time, and they’re willing to sue for absolutely zero gain, why not bring this forward?
You’re right we don’t know the specifics. We never will thats for sure. The easiest specific I see that that either Acti cannot sue D2JSP OR that they admit that JSP is good for the game because they didn’t think to add a currency and proper trading platform when the game was created. I honestly think that they simply do no have the ability to sue because of the way JSP is setup. Regardless even directly purchasing forum gold (not donation) the site has many forums it could be for anything, so Acti couldn’t prove it was for diablo items. Regardless JSP is not buying items, and individual is, so JSP cannot be in violation of any ToS because they’re not playing/buying/selling on D2R. You can argue facilitation but the creator of bitcoin cannot be sued because someone used a bitcoin to buy drugs.
I myself also am not up to date on brazilian affairs with the constituion. Sucks that govts can’t just do better.
Your new trade system might actually work in some way shape/form, but there aren’t enough runes going around for people to buy what they need. That would involve a giant rework of the game which just isn’t going to happen. Also in your ideal marketplace how does one decide which rune is better? A Zod would have many times the buying power of ohm, but most of the time and ohm is worth more than a zod to the individual. So people just have to accept the rune that nobody needs because it was bid?
i can think of a couple more reasons why they wouldnt legally engage
my system bounds the seller to the highest offer
you maybe doesnt get a ohm for your shako ladder day one, but something you gonna get
countess gives a ist each 250 runs, mal and um each 200, so plenty of runes
so plenty of mid runes
i desagree
they made it clear they are willing to put the effort with the substitution of the frame system for a time system
an AH as i suggested wouldnt need too much of changes to the game it self
sure this feature would need to be well polished but 90% of it would be off the game
we still think like that because we are still stuck with the concept of “value” equals “use” and the “use” is nothing more than the utility of the rune for rws
if you make a zod, by tabulation, more valuable than a jah now it got a new use
and a very good one
i would have no problem if i was selling a perfect dweb i horked out of pindle and the winner offer was a zod if i could use the same zod to buy a very well rolled grief worth multiple bers, for example
I honestly thought Blizz would implement something to take away the appeal of D2JSP. Maybe it’s just not worth it to them.
you mean its not worth it to them to take down a site that is providing them a service, keep a game they made alive.
not costing them a dime in design, management, moderation, servers, upkeep.
not having to pay anyone for any of they and reaping all the benefits for free.
yeah i would wager its not worth it to them to take that down.
if they even tried it they would lose probably 80+% of the d2 base.
trying to remove jsp would isnt only just shooting them in the foot and would cost them a TON of time money, responses, people. to replace… it probably wouldn’t be on a similar level. it wouldn’t be moderated.
it would be a complete utter disaster.
thats not to say they havent done incredibly stupid things in the past…
we all remember “real names”, RMAH, “dont you guys have phones”
I mean you can think of a billion reasons why sure maybe.
Point is though if you get it down simple.
If they could they would, but they can’t and never will.
I’ve listed all the reasons why JSP would be no different than other entities they’ve gone after but simply put you’re refusing to use logic. And yes I get that we don’t know all the details for sure, but most of the time the simplest answer is the correct one. There is nothing crazily elaborate going on here, it is simply that Activision cannot do anything about JSP because JSP isn’t doing anything wrong.
I think that you trully think that your marketplace will work. I’m also fairly certain it never could. Every game with a market place has a built in currency that has value. Sure there eventually is an excess of runes and whatnot, but those who know what they’re doing will easily eventually hold most of the HR. Not only that but your item being left on the market place for even hours early ladder will lose value. With forum gold you’ll have a sale in 2 minutes, and lose no value. Or you’ll be forced to take an IST rune early ladder for your shako, when early ladder a shako might be worth an ohm, but nobody has found an ohm yet.
You can disagree all you want. An auction house in way more effort than you think it is. Especially one that would probably need to work cross region. Not only that, but they’d have to remove trading completely and make it so only you can see your own drops because people would still use JSP or RMT in game. That is a TON of work for very little benefit because JSP already created a very good auction house and currency for them.
Yes in your scenario you’re talking about worths that you probably have never even seen in game. But what do you do when you traded X item for a Zod, but now you need a Jah rune because thats what you actually needed. Now, nobody is listing their Jah rune for fear of receiving a Zod rune that they don’t want or need. You’re relying on a market you’re barely a part of to work right with Activision making the AH and that it will all just work out. Simply put the devs nor you have traded enough or know the value of items well enough to make it all work.
i think you are just oversimplifying things
things arent that black and white
and ive listed the only one reason needed to not pursue legal actions against rmt
different game, different aproachs
if this is not good enough for you…im sry?
but the simple fact that the simplest answer is also not always the correct one is enough to raise doubts, leaving no room for determinism
as i said
imo, they are clearly “facilitating crime”, the crime of IP violation
d3 AH had gold, farmable in the game just as runes are in d2
holding value is something common irl
people have savings
i dont see this as a problem, is it?
thats not true
once your early ladder shako is listed people will definitely want to buy it, leading to a good amount of offers
so technically your shako already sold bc your are bound to the highest offer, you just have to wait to the end of the auction to see how much you got for it
this is another illusion d2 players usually fall
a shako isnt worth an ohm, it never should be, ohm is just more rare and has “better” uses
a shako can be bought by an ohm bc people were hording credit from past ladders which lead to overall inflation in prices
they already have a very good code from d3 AH
they would just need to adapt to the d2r
you can:
try to sell your zod for a jah
try to buy a jah for a zod
try to buy the rw you want for a zod
why whould they fear it? a zod is more valuable than a jah, trading a jah for zod is a great deal in my system
well the same aplies to you
you are no authority to say who knows better, right?
I might be oversimplifying things sure. Just like you’re simply saying different games different approaches. It doesn’t make sense to go after a 2000dollar SC2 tournament for zero financial gain but they did that. Then for some reason not go after JSP which could actually get them a reward for their effort just because it is a different game. You’re trying to find an excuse for why they wouldn’t do it rather than even possibly consider that they don’t do it because they will not win and cannot win. They wasted thousands going after that tournament, but wouldn’t do the same for a case that you seem to think is easy. You’re refusing to apply logic to the situation. Now I can see why they don’t pursue a lawsuit against the faceless RMT sites that are currently available. But JSP is a registered company with visible owners.
Now you are looking for the tiniest of outs. You’re right the simplest answer is not always the right one for sure. I cannot for sure determine that is the case you’re right about that. But it is much more likely that I’m right, rather than you are. You’re so sure they’ve committed a crime, broke ToS, you state this matter-of-factly, they then choose not to do anything about it even though they did do something about the bot they used to create. So they can go after them for the bot, but not FG/facilitation/ToS? Same game different issue now. So one of your excuses is gone.
As far as the market thing is concerned you don’t really understand because you don’t really trade. I mean sure you probably trade in public lobbies wasting your time, but you don’t understand. Everyone early ladder needs a shako, they probably need that ohm for a CTA as well. But my shako is on par with a ohm right they. They both create power spikes for your character on an equal level because they’re both super rare currently. If someone has 2 ohm’s they would think the deal early ladder ohm for my shako a good one. late in ladder that would not be the case. You think you can manage an auction house, but you don’t even understand how supply/demand in ladder works. Stating things such as a Zod is more valuable than jah, which in the scenario where JSP/RMT doesn’t exist that still would never be true.
I have no “authority” to say who knows better. There is no legal title for someone who knows about trading on D2. But I know for a fact I’ve traded more than you and all the devs combined and multiplied many times over. And I’m sure you’ll come back with something like “yOu CaN’t pRovE ThAt” sure you’re right looking for a cop out. I can however show my JSP logs with 100’s of thousands of trades. Meanwhile you cannot show anywhere near that many trades.
we can be sure of one thing, it wasnt for the money
in the same way that if something like that was made for diablo, it wouldnt be for the money
thats exactly the opposite of what im doing here
all i said is “i dont know why but imo they can”
the only one making excuses for something is you about the fact that blizz hasnt done anything so far
“its bc they cant”
thats how an excuse sounds like
maybe they just dont want to engage against their customes where there is no competitive scene to harm?
or maybe they are trying to have absolute control over the competitive scenario, something its not needed in d2?
or doing that can lead to backlash from the midia?
i really dont know why
its not like we are rolling dices
im limiting myself to talk about what they can do bc anything else is pure speculation
because botting is something much more harmful to the game?
i once got a nice beating from my mother when i was a kid, reason was a kicked my little sister in her “back pack”
another time i got a slap on the hand for pinching that same sister
same nature, violence, different scale and different punishments
maybe player to player rmt is something blizz dont care for diablo
maybe diablo players are just 2nd grade players and not worth it
maybe both
idk
i dont know why you assume so much about others
i never traded from lobby
a shako werent and never will be as rare as a ohm
with a ohm you at least have a chance of a jackpot with a 6/6/x cta
i speak for myself, i rather lvl up a sorce and farm meph than trade my ohm for a shako or run countess 300 times for the mal and ist missing for cta
sure but still doesnt make your word more valuable than any other
neither that nor make comments about your life outside this forum with the clear objective of disrespecting you
and i could say that im sure my experience with d3 AH is/was vastly than yours, still, i dont see my self as any kind of authority in AH
HR’s have been used as a currency in this game for a while but how viable are the HR’s when only the players that seem to have no life are tho only ones that actually have them.
Blizzard creating a type of currency that is relatively easy for all players to get and an in-game trade market to make all trades be done from within the game. Weather this currency is purchased and/or earnable in-game by means other than using the in-game market to trade is up to blizzard
The AH in D3 was not successfull partially due to the drop rates being way to high in the higher lvl GRifts and nearly all set and legendary items from GRift lvls 145-150 and the game being too easy for players to mod
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