D2R Needs FG Trading

General Discussion
222

How is the fact that they can’t an excuse? They can’t which exactly why they’re not doing anything. Their lawyers have told them that JSP is untouchable and follows the letter of the law. The users of JSP might be breaking the ToS, but they cannot easily go after them. You keep searching for the smallest excuse to give them a way out rather than admit they have no legal ground to stand on. Meanwhile they went after them for the BOT, they’ve gone after other mods of LOD. RMT is against the ToS for the users to do, but they can’t even go after actual RMT websites because there is no legal ground to stand on.

I didn’t mean to type trade from lobby. I would have said chat channel, but really meant in trade games. A shako early ladder is indeed just as rare as an Ohm rune. You’re right an Ohm could roll 6/6/x for sure, not relevant. And you’re being awfully specific and looking for a tiny cop out. Shakos are indeed worth a ton more early ladder, there is no way in your system to capitalize on having an extra shako early ladder. Why should people be punished for finding an extra of whatever item be it shako/arach and forced to take a late ladder price for an item that everyone needs/wants, but cannot really afford early on? You might rather keep rolling CTA’s, the normal person would roll their one CTA and find a use for the second ohm. That is based off the fact that many people sell their ohm runes on JSP early ladder instead of constantly rerolling a CTA. Yes, my word about how trading works in this game is more valuable than yours. I’ve seen more trades this week probably than you’ve seen since D2R launch. You have little to no comprehension on how the market works because you’re not arround it. You make assumptions on how an AH would work despite never being around an AH that worked well and not knowing nearly enough about D2R’s trading. Your actual trading on D3’s AH is probably more extensive than mine for sure. Congrats on being an expert in the broken D3 RMT/Duping/Market Manipulating auction house. That is where your expertise lies and yet you think you can use parts of that in D2R? I think everyone would say no thanks given their own individual knowledge of the D3AH.

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The only way to give a blizzard currency value would be if they eliminated all outside trades and forced everyone to use an AH. Otherwise no blizzard coin would fully takeover from FG. Then you have the issue of people still manipulating trades on the AH in an attempt to use FG or RM to make a purchase such as El for Jah rune or Shako for Ptopaz. Also you would be exposing the game to the same situation where players find ways to manipulate the AH like they did in D3. Either buy hoarding all of X item to drive up prices, or messing with the system and scamming by duping which wound up screwing over a lot of players. And to even think that this version of Blizzard could/would ever even attempt to do that IMO is sort of crazy.

224

this is a fair point

i have suggested that the runes vex+ need an update on their downgrade chance

same above

grs never coexisted with d3 ah
im not sure what you meant here

bc you dont know
and if you dont know its a theory/excuse

bc i belive they have the legal ground to stand for

lobby, game name, anything inside the game

shako 1/2000 mephs
ohm 1/360000 cow

except for HF group farm, you cant target farm an ohm unlike a shako

no one in their right mind would trade an ohm for a shako
except fancy currency hoarders that have nothing better to do with it

i would make another cta for another char and have again another try to get a 6/6/x

authority is gained, not proclaimed

you come from jsp
your house is made of glass

i dont think d3 ah should be copy pasted into d2r if thats whats you implying

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An in-game market/auction house might actually make some players more likely to do their trading in the game rather than using a 3rd party website that for the most part overprices the items.

Duping is why HR’s cannot be used as a currency but however blizzard could add an in-game trading currency that can either be purchased or earned only by using the in-game trade system all currency you have on ladder would be locked till after the first month of the season is over but would carry over from season to season

Even if GRifts and the AH were not active in-game at the same time D3 still had a system that increased the drop rate based on game difficulty not player count which made the drop rates rediculously high on the highest difficulty levels

226

this is very true

but rmt crusaders will do everything to discredit any kind of intention to make an AH within the game because it means losing market and value for the currency they have accumulated

everything they say follows an agenda, the agenda of keeping their system the only/most used

right now there are no signs of dups in d2r

getting an item is easy in d3
getting a very well rolled item in d3 can take hundreds of hours, just like in d2

d3 is about playing the build and improving it
d2 is about closing the build

each vison has its merits and problems imo

227

There are dupes in D2R however only a few people know how to dupe and most of the items being duped are bases for runewords as the base items do not poof if they are duped cause they do not have a unique Item ID like runes, runewords, unique items, and set items do

for example I saw someone on JSP selling like 10 Perfect AP bases for Enigma all of them had max base defense and +15% enhanced defense would you not suspct them being duped considering the rarity of the base AP to have its max possible base defense and +15% ed

keep in mind that it is just an example that may or may not have happened

228

You believe they have legal ground, but they haven’t done anything for almost 20 years, but they’re willing to go after free mod providers, the bots, small tournaments none of which gained them any money, nor were the modders/small tournaments malicious, but you claim JSP is. Seems farfetched that they wouldn’t do anything about such a devious company as is JSP breaking all those laws/ToS. But a much easier pill to swallow? They can’t do anything, which is why nothing has happened in 20 years almost.

You’re bringing in stats which is cool and all shako is indeed 1/2000 meph runs (yes full runs) But you then post stats about cows on lowest player setting and not acknowledging how many cows are in one cow level. Meanwhile for cows on P8 it would take about 350 runs for you to find an ohm rune, now mephisto is easier to kill, but just as hard to find as tristam is which is the only tricky part about cows. Going off those stats you should technically find a shako nearly as often as you find an ohm. Doesn’t seem like that great of a difference to me. I was using the rough number that there are 450cows per cow run I couldn’t find an offical source. But oh wait theres more, there are also 3 other ways that are more efficient at finding an ohm rather than doing cows all day. Each of those again keeps on par with finding a shako.

You might make a second CTA not really sure why one CTA is enough but thats all good. But CTA’s can swap between chars and most people would rather capitalize on their second ohm’s value. Maybe they do make 2 CTA’s, but most sell one of them. How do I know may you ask? Well if most people thought like you, there would be almost no Ohm’s for sale on JSP early ladder. Crazily enough there are. Why? Because people are smart enough to use the shared stash, and want to use that ohm to complete their character in another way. Also early ladder fg prices said that a shako was near equal to ohm :slight_smile:

I’m not some sort of offical trade guru. Those don’t exist. But I know more about trading than you. Be it in LOD chat channels, in trade games, traderie, discord, JSP. I do know more. I don’t need an official title that doesn’t exist for that to be true. You only have knowledge of the tiniest amount of trades that you and one other individual in game participate in. Meanwhile I can see 100’s of trades an hour that I don’t even participate in.

I come from JSP sure. There was no market manipulation on JSP. There is technically no RMT either. There certainly were duped goods when we were all playing LOD, but people knew they were duped unlike those in D3 that lost all the value of their time receiving duped gear. But hey at least you know about the broken system, that didn’t work, that was made after JSP, by the company you want to make a system for D2. I mean they’re bound to get it right this time right?

I don’t actually think that you want a direct copy paste into D2, never said that. What you want is a company that continues to fail at most everything they do to make a massive change to a game that none of the devs really know, nor do you (trading that is). And somehow you think that people who don’t trade, know how to trade, or trade often can come up with an AH system that will actually work. Straight foolishness lol.

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229

While I concur that there are probably a few people who dupe in D2R I’m just going to correct you on a few things. Duped bases do have unique ID, when they’re made into a runeword that ID is rerolled. Duped runes also have a unique ID, but when socketed they lose that ID and are perm. This is based off how it worked in LOD, I’m not sure if any changed were made in D2R.

Now for your example someone was using perf 15ed mage plates at one point and was selling enigmas all the time. You could if you were a good trader be very active, but I doubt it. Regardless if an armor rolls an ED modifier in D2R it automatically gets a max roll on defense then applies the modifier. Every 12% ed AP has the same defense, Every 13% ed AP has the same defense, and they’re all 1% higher than the 12%. Now as for someone using a perfect base while duping that just makes sense. People want the best, so thats what the duper was using as the base.

And tbh I do think it happened. Early last ladder I checked a traders post history. A lot of the same bases were getting recycled very often and made into the very TOP tier of items over and over again.

Buy hey, let’s trust Activision to install an AH onto their remade game that they coudln’t even fix duping on.

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Kep in mind Microsoft will own all of the Activision/Blizzard games as early as June 30, 2023 and they will ask for changes to be made as they do not allow 3rd party trading sites to make money off the games that they own for the most part

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While I hope that Microsoft will change Blizzard back to how it used to be, so they can start producing good games once agian. I don’t think the change will be that quick it will take years to get rid of Activisions influence.

Microsoft doesn’t make or control any game similar to D2. I don’t think they’ve dealt with a situation like this. Nor do I think they have any more ability to do so. JSP breaks no laws, so Microsoft can’t stop them. They could modify the game to make JSP unable to be used, but that would take a lot of work for a game that they’re not going to be making an more money off of.

Edit: I’m not sure why you think Blizzard can’t do what Microsoft can. I get that Microsoft is bigger, but they both are worth a ton of money.

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i know about ids
but about base duping in d2r? thats something new to me

i have to be honest, this can be a sign of hoarding/marketing manipulation, dupping or botting and if we take jsp history into consideration, i would guess is the third one

+1

p8 and early ladder is a paradox

your mistake is to compare a p8 cow run agains a p1 meph run with no mf

you will never get a trustful number this way

i compared both in p1, i didnt even put any mf for meph
you compared meph p1 vs cow p8

o think the max cows is about 400 and the average is 350 but no one serious doing cows kill all of them

p1 meph has 1/961 for shako with 150mf, 1 min runs
60x961=16,1h for a shako

p1 cow has 1/360000 for ohm, 3-4 min runs (3:30[210sec] average)
killing an average of 350 cows per run
360000/350=1028 runs
1028*210= about 60h for an ohm

proclaming has no use here

you forgot to mention bots

“it wont work bc you dont know how to” is indeed a really deep analysis

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I’m not saying that people are for sure base duping in D2R. But early ladder not super early there was a guy who was continuously selling 15ed MP enigmas. 15ed MP is not the hardest base to find for sure, but he was selling a TON of them and this was very early on. I’ve sold or resold maybe 6 15ed MP armors (not enigmas) since ladder started. This guy probably sold 50 enigmas. He could have been working with a botter/RM website or a duper, I have no clue. I only leaned towards duper because it was the same item, not necessarily impossible, but at that time 15ED mage plates were harder to find than jah/ber.

P8 early ladder is easy. You can easily join pub games and farm cows. Baal runs are super slow so you can actually finish cows before they finish a baal run. Regardless even with your inflated number it is only 800 cow runs to find ohm. Sure they take longer, but you’ll actually find an ohm in about the same amount of time it takes to find a shako from meph.

You compared both in P1 because cows don’t make much sense in P1. You can do it, but you’d be eating all that no drop chance which meph doesn’t have except for the bonus drop on mephisto.

I saw about 6 posts saying cows is 450-500. You can keep skewing it however you want sure maybe a shako is a bit sooner but they’re similar enough. P1 cows is certainly doable, but there is zero reason for a java to stick to P1. I farmed P8 pit/AT/Chaos in games all early ladder no problem, so P8 cows is just as doable. I actually did P8 mephisto too for a while, but that is besides the point.

proclaiming facts is what I did there. I do know more about trading than you. Hands down no doubt. It doesn’t change anything about our conversation, because even with my vast wealth of knowledge I couldn’t tell you if an AH works in D2. But you certainly don’t know if one would work.

What do you mean bots? Bots have nothing to do with if an AH would work in game? Not that Activision or Blizzard ever could stop botters or make an AH that works well. My analysis doesn’t need to be that deep to be honest does it? They completely failed with the D3 auction house. Those are devs that supposedly know what they’re doing. But somehow you think they’re going to be smart enough to get it to work in this game? A game without a common currency? And it isn’t even just about getting it to work properly where people don’t abuse glitches in their AH system. You think that the runes and trades will flow well? What you’ll have is a dead AH, people only using it when it is absolutely necessary because runes are scarce, and the smart users will horde them, driving down the price of everything because people will be selling tyreals mights for ists runes to try and cube up to jah/ber because none are ever on the market. Nobody will list their tal armor for fear of getting a ZOD they can’t do anything with, because nobody is listing things because of that exact fear, when someone could post an actually usefull rune like ohm, zod is a free win.

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Rune Chance per Cow Chance per Game Rune+ Chance per Cow Rune+ Chance per Game
Ohm Rune 1:360182 1:1029 1:128864 1:368

and each run takes 3x more time to farm than a meph run

This lists rune drops for The Secret Cow Level, 1 player, Hell Difficulty, Normal cows. (350 per game)
Not counting unique packs or champions. (They make the chances slightly better)

Solo Cows: Rune Figures

so about 400 per game counting boss packs
so my math with 350 average cows killed/run stands correct as no one serious kill all the cows

if you wanna be taken serious, its cows p8 vs meph p5

p8 cows
1/157000 for ohm
157000/350=448
448x210s=94080s=26h

for shako
different calculators returned different probabilities
maxroll is the only one showing 1/950 p5 mephs with 150% mf for a shako
the german drop calculator, atma and silospen returned 1 in 767, 766 and 778 respectively
so we can ignore maxroll bc its clearly something is off with their math

p5 meph
772/1 for shako p5 with 150% mf
772x60s=46320s=13h

conclusion
even at the best scenario for cows, an ohm still 2x more rarer than a shako

d3 dev team is not the same as d2r dev team
i mentioned that the code is there to be used which means thats half work is already done

what you think about yourself or others is everything but a fact
you can keep trying to push this but this only works with those who bought a shako from you for their ohm

i doubt that
people are so eager for an oficial trading platform that they gonna use whatever is given to them

anyway
this is getting repetitive
everything else i already adressed in previous posts

235

JSP is pretty close to a free market.

Items sell for what they are worth. If a seller overprices the item, people won’t buy it. Another seller will come along with a lower price, or the original seller will have to lower the price until someone decides it is worth it.

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236

How are you manipulating P5 on ladder at a steady rate where 4 people will follow you to the next game every 60 seconds. Not even sure if a 60second run would be average, but you’re definitely not getting P5 games. If you bump it up to P8 which you can get into, you’re not completing your run in anywhere near 1 minute early ladder.

As for cows you’re drastically under selling how easy groups of cows are killed together. You don’t miss 50, you’re not calculating for the increased drop chance from cow king and other champ cows. You’re inflating the time per run as well.

You’re right they’re not the same team. D3 had a real team and failed, but you expect the D2R team to do better who can’t even recreate a game properly.

I’m not pushing a narrative and the ohm vs shako topic was just two random points of interest, I don’t think I’ve ever done that trade. Regardless I do know more about trading than you because I’ve done more trades than you many times over.

Nobody is eager for an official trading platform you’re eager for one because you don’t like JSP. There aren’t threads daily about when is an AH coming to D2 with 1000’s of people talking about it here because they’re fine with traderie/discord/jsp.

But alas this is the end. They will never make an AH. An AH would never work in the first place, but they won’t even create one so what is there even to discuss. Just like they’ll never stop JSP because they have no legal ability to do so. Thankfully JSP finished creating what D2 should have in the first place. I’m really glad that Blizzard fully supports JSP and it’s users.

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He won’t drop that one no matter how much logic you throw at him. I cannot why he thinks this, but I think it is perhaps because he is broke in game and has awful characters and doesn’t know how to MF well.

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the drops for bosses doesnt change after p5
if all you can get is p8, p8 it is

the same way 3:30min cow run is humanly impossible at ladder start, at p8 but i used this time anyway to make it easy for you

if you dont, the time your run takes longer is not worth those cows
as i said, if youre serious, you aim for density not full clears

i think d2r is a much better version of d2 than lod ever dreamed of being

speak for yourself
this is the only logical conclusion after countless threads asking for this

this is not true in the case of jsp
available wealth is a big factor on value
a “crap” apartment is expensive if it is in manhattan
the same apartment wont be as expensive if it was in another place
that said, like the apartment, jsp prices are driven by an acumulated inflation of many years and they feel right for jsp only

239

You’re right the drops don’t change after P5 on the bosses.
But you’re also not doing P8 meph nearly that quickly.

You can do even quicker cow runs early ladder with a java which is probably the only char that should attempt P8 or cows early ladder. Infinity and even the basic white javas you start with clear cows. The only struggle would be cow king with basic white 5dmg javas.

If you’re running P8 cows you keep up with the baal run, you don’t worry about full clears sure, but early ladder you typically don’t have to worry about that you have enough time to kill almost every cow because baal runs keep pace. Obviously you take advantage of the bonus no drop and try to full clear as much as possible.

D2R graphically is much better. They have made some adjustments that are nice, but all of them could have been done in the original game. But D2R hasn’t done anything creative that couldn’t have been done in LOD. And D2R’s game list is a joke, chat channels is a joke, communication also a joke when compared to a 20 year old game.

Nobody is eager. There isn’t countless threads there are 4 people circle jerking about getting rid of JSP because they’re made they aren’t as good as them. Not only that but they just try to find ways to get rid of JSP’s immense value to LOD and D2R because of that salt. There aren’t many AH desired threads, there aren’t many blizzard should make their own fg threads, there are a few JSP is illegal threads mainly started by those same few people. But we know those people are wrong because Acti can’t do anything about JSP since they operate within the rules of law.

A ber rune in game is worth the same as a ber rune on JSP. JSP just makes it easier to trade that ber rune. Past wealth doesn’t increase the value of the ber rune, the ber rune has increased value early ladder because nobody has them.

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240

the same for cows

no you cant
you can maybe keep the 3:30s/run on p1 early ladder
but with 4,5x more hp, 50% lighting resist, no razortail and much more loot on the ground to browser, you just cant early ladder, maybe with a twinked javs

i couldnt care less about MP itself
as brevik said, MP in diablo was a Blizzard Entertainment’s thing, they sent their devs to make it work, it was never a priority for the original team

rarity is only a factor when compared to anything outside the ladder, aka jsp, rmt or cross mode trading
inside it doesnt matter
a ber may buys a poor rolled griffs early on, the same at the end of ladder
the only variant is jsp wealth and how much people in there are willing to pay for any of these

saying that acumulated credit and inflation has no impact on economy is pure nonsense

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You’re right cows take longer in P8 vs P1, but not as crazy as you think.

You can go offline and hero edit a character. Javas P8 is actually still crazy good with no gear. Sure it is easy 1shot material if you’re geared, but java doesn’t suffer that much in p8.

If you don’t care about MP for some weird reason because it wasn’t a priority of the original team, then why do you care about any of it? Lol. Like why bother worrying about the perfectly legal actions of JSP and FG?