Community Feedback for Improving Itemization

[Nickie-11685]

That’s a great list.

I don’t know what the hell Blizzard was thinking not putting all of these items into D4 at launch.

The only other item I would think is missing is Shadowfang which is tied to Azurewrath.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Nickie-11685

The only other item I would think is missing is Shadowfang which is tied to Azurewrath.

I would have added both Shadowfang and Spire of Lazarus, but wanted to keep list to Elite Uniques.

---

@Camperdabase-1845

Global in the table: Limit the level of properties up to 93 and the maximum level req in 69, remembering that crafts can go up to level 91 of level req

How about adding this global change to the Improve Crafting section?..

Crafted Item Required Level

The required level of crafted items will no longer have higher level requirements than their rare equivalents (even with same prefixes/suffixes) and the maximum required level of crafted items will be capped to 69.

[Necromant-2961]

Hey Charles, plz help me out. I was checking on what we proposed to QHW. And now in the OP we have the following.

Que-Hegan’s Wisdom

@CharlesJT-1538

Que-Hegan’s Wisdom
Mage Plate
Defense: 628-681
Required Level: 51
Required Strength: 55
+140-160% Enhanced Defense
+1 To All Skill Levels
+3 To Mana After Each Kill
20% Faster Cast Rate
20% Faster Hit Recovery
Magic Damage Reduced By 6-10
+15 To Energy

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add Fire Resist +30%
  • Add Damage Reduced By 7-15
  • Change Energy from +15 to +25

And I´m somehow not to happy with that and probably woul not choose that on any char. I remember we´ve been talking about center it around a mana thema (to be less dependent an your usual insight merc). Last trace in this hack of a thread I could find was this version. Post 679

@Necromant-2961

Proposed Buffs:

• Add All Resist +15%
• Add Damage Reduced By 7-15
• Change Energy from +15 to +15-25
• Change Mana After Each Kill from +3 to +10-15

When and why did wi change that if so? Ich like the later version with increased MAEK roll really much and would use that much more likely. Did we just forget to update the OP? Any idea?

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Necromant-2961

When and why did wi change that if so? Ich like the later version with increased MAEK roll really much and would use that much more likely. Did we just forget to update the OP? Any idea?

Thanks for bringing this up. As we recently reviewed many uniques, to be honest not sure what happened to QHW, but trying to incorporate ideas from many different people. I updated OP based on your feedback and want to ensure your happy with proposed changes…

Que-Hegan’s Wisdom
Mage Plate
Defense: 628-681
Required Level: 51
Required Strength: 55
+140-160% Enhanced Defense
+1 To All Skill Levels
+3 To Mana After Each Kill
20% Faster Cast Rate
20% Faster Hit Recovery
Magic Damage Reduced By 6-10
+15 To Energy

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add Fire Resist +30%
  • Add Damage Reduced By 7-15
  • Change Energy from +15 to +15-25
  • Change Mana After Each Kill from +3 to +10-15

[charley222-1304]

the good thing about this topic , after every season end , you just have to delete the number and move on to the next one soon is going to be 6

Season 6 - Calling to Improve Itemization

the result will be the same

because the talent and knowledge is just not there to fix the game

[Nickie-11685]

the blizzard devs should be desperate and grateful for this thread lol. Maybe they can use it for inspiration on Diablo 5, because Diablo 4 is unsalvageable

[CharlesJT-1538]

To continue side discussion on REVAMP RUNEWORDS, we should be able to come up with sensible nerfs to runewords that are generally considered OP. I understand this discussion can be contentious, but would be another step in the right direction at improving itemization by fostering player choice. To start us off, what do you guys think of below…

Stealth

• Change FRW from +25% to +15%
• Change FCR from +25% to +15%
• Change FHR from +25% to +15%

Spirit (Sword)

• Change All Skills from +2 to +1
• Change FHR from +55% to +25%
• Change Mana from +89-112 to +59-82

Spirit (Shield)

• Change All Skills from +2 to +1

Insight

• Change Meditation Aura from Level 12-17 to Level 6-10

Grief

• Change Damage from +340-400 to +260-320

Enigma

• Change Strength from +0-74 (0.75 Per Clvl) to +0-24 (0.25 Per Clvl)
• Change Magic Find from 1-99% (1.0% Per Clvl) to 1-49% (0.5% Per Clvl)

[Camperdabase-1845]

@CharlesJT-1538

How about adding this global change to the Improve Crafting section?..

Crafted Item Required Level

The required level of crafted items will no longer have higher level requirements than their rare equivalents (even with same prefixes/suffixes) and the maximum required level of crafted items will be capped to 69.

I apologize for the delay in responding, but I’m having to deal with my elderly mother’s health problems and it’s not easy.

I’m already going to give the spoiler that I’m against, but I’ll substantiate this as much as I can.

1. Craft would not have any disadvantage compared to rares, considering that with item ilevel 71+ it always comes with 7 properties, 3 fixed + 4 drawn.

2. This would be an alternative to fixing the amulet level req mess, but it would add more mess to glove crafting, drawing all unwanted properties to the draw.

3. Few properties would be really affected the table would be these

Name	level	levelreq	mod1code	itype1	itype2	itype3	itype4	itype5	Afix
of Freezing Arrows	94	86	charged	glov					Sulfix
of Lightning Strike	90	82	charged	glov					Sulfix
Valkyrie’s	90	67	ama	amul	circ				Prefix
Priest’s	90	67	pal	amul	circ				Prefix
Necromancer’s	90	67	nec	amul	circ				Prefix
Arch-Angel’s	90	67	sor	amul	circ				Prefix
Berserker’s	90	67	bar	amul	circ				Prefix
Hierophant’s	90	67	dru	amul	circ				Prefix
Witch-hunter’s	90	67	Sin	amul	circ				Prefix
of the Vampire	86	74	manasteal	ring					Sulfix
of the Lamprey	85	73	lifesteal	amul					Sulfix
of the Vampire	78	66	manasteal	amul	circ				Sulfix
of the Lamprey	77	65	lifesteal	ring	circ				Sulfix
Scorching	77	67	fire-min	weap					Prefix
of Transcendence	76	68	dmg-min	weap					Sulfix
Shocking	76	66	ltng-min	weap					Prefix
of the Titan	74	66	str	ring	scep	mace	tors		Sulfix
of Ice Arrows	72	64	charged	glov					Sulfix
of Frozen Orbs	72	72	charged	knif					Sulfix
of Lower Resistance	72	72	charged	staf					Sulfix
of Poison Novas	72	72	charged	glov					Sulfix
of Bone Spirits	72	72	charged	amul	circ				Sulfix
of Atlus	71	63	str	amul	belt	club	hamm	circ	Sulfix
of Regeneration	70	52	regen	tors	weap	boot			Sulfix
Hibernal	70	60	cold-len	weap					Prefix

This proposal would hit the main affix that make some rings and amulets well above the level req, but it causes many side effects, mainly for the gloves.

It would also affect some of the weapons, but they are so crap compared to non-top rank runewords like honor that it only highlights the problem that even getting the upgrade to have a level req max of 69, no one would use it since 100% of the time honor is stronger.

[Camperdabase-1845]

@CharlesJT-1538

Crafted Item Pre-Set Mods

A crafted item always has a set of pre-set mods that depends on the recipe used and the type of item that is crafted. The four crafting themes could use a balance pass on the pre-set mods available as shown below:

List looks good but I would add

Hitpower: I would put properties to add curses in addition to amplify damage, Lower resist, Decrepify and Lower Resist

Blood: Curse Life Tap

Safety: Cannot be Frozen, hit blinds target, Chance that Hit Causes Monster to Flee, Weaken, Confuse, Attract and Terror

I am particularly against limiting weapon type by theme

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Camperdabase-1845

List looks good but I would add

Hitpower: I would put properties to add curses in addition to amplify damage, Lower resist, Decrepify and Lower Resist

Blood: Curse Life Tap

Safety: Cannot be Frozen, hit blinds target, Chance that Hit Causes Monster to Flee, Weaken, Confuse, Attract and Terror

I am particularly against limiting weapon type by theme

Thanks for the feedback and updated OP with the following changes below…

Crafting Theme	Pre-Set Mods
Blood	Vitality, Life, Life Steal, Life Per Kill, Life Regeneration, Chance of Deadly Strike, Chance of Open Wounds, CtC Life Tap On Striking
Caster	Energy, Mana, Mana Per Kill, Mana Regeneration, Increase Maximum Mana, Damage Taken Goes to Mana, Faster Cast Rate
Hitpower	Strength, Damage, Enhanced Damage, Attack Rating, Minus Target Defense, Chance of Crushing Blow, CtC Amplify Damage On Striking, CtC Decrepify On Striking, CtC Lower Resist On Striking
Safety	Dexterity, Defense, Enhanced Defense, All Resist, Physical Damage Reduction, Increased Chance of Blocking, Faster Block Rate, Faster Hit Recovery, Half Freeze Duration, Cannot Be Frozen, Hit Blinds Target, Hit Causes Monster to Flee, Knockback, CtC Frost Nova When Hit, CtC Weaken When Hit, CtC Confuse When Hit

@Camperdabase-1845

I am particularly against limiting weapon type by theme

I like what Ubeogesh mentioned below about relaxing item restrictions and seems to be very fitting.

@Ubeogesh-2804

RE: Crafting. Agree on everything. “Relax item restrictions” should not be completely removed though, i personally love to look for specific bases to craft armours. E.g. I find vampirebone gloves I craft blood gloves.

a) only for weapons
b) blood weapons require an bladed weapon (axe, sword, dagger, spear, polearm)
c) hitpower is fine with all the blunt weapons
d) safety should include polearms and greatswords (basically safety is “high reach” weapons) AND RANGED WEAPONS (throwing, bows, crossbows).
e) rods should include orbs

[Camperdabase-1845]

@CharlesJT-1538

Crafted Item Required Level

The required level of crafted items will no longer have higher level requirements than their rare equivalents (even with same prefixes/suffixes) and the maximum required level of crafted items will be capped to 69.

I’m not particularly against this model, I think it’s even more interesting, but I’d rather see the process go through an unrestricted PTR to see what would be viable or not, have a season without restrictions to have a complete experience of how this works. would affect the game, to later return to a more thematic model. I know that giving and then withdrawing can be problematic, but I am of the opinion that economic problems are solved by the market. Implementing any craft changes without PRT is crazy.

As for your suggestion to limit the Level req, I think this can be done in another way.

NoP = Number of properties

Change the formula for increasing the level req of crafts from 10 + 3 * NoP

5+3 * NoP
5+ 2 * NoP

In the classic example of the amulet of the Lamprey that nowadays ends up with level req 95 in the cube

name	level	levelreq	Craft level req	Fórmula	proposals
of the Lamprey	85	73	95	10 + 3 * 4	current
of the Lamprey	85	73	90	5 + 3 * 4	Proposal 1
of the Lamprey	85	73	86	5 + 2 * 4	Proposal 2

Edit in time:

@Devs

Item Level Requirements
“When items list a Level Requirement, the number listed is 75% of the highest prefix or suffix level (as shown on this page) on the item. For example, a weapon with a Meteoric(27) as the highest prefix (or suffix) would have a level requirement of 20. Rare Items do not list the magic prefixes and suffixes by name so you will have to figure out based on their stats what magic prefixes and suffixes are being used.”

Magic sulfix table

Name	version	spawnable	rare	level	maxlevel	levelreq	mathematics
of the Lamprey	100	1	1	85		73	wrong
of the Lamprey	100	1	1	85		63	correct

[Necromant-2961]

@CharlesJT-1538

I updated OP based on your feedback and want to ensure your happy with proposed changes…

Solid and I´m happy and sure it´ll be used witht this changes, thx!

@CharlesJT-1538

Stealth

• Change FRW from +25% to +15%
• Change FCR from +25% to +15%
• Change FHR from +25% to +15%

Would support this! Would open up the room for others to be viable. Stealth is OP for the low costs!

@CharlesJT-1538

Spirit (Sword)

• Change All Skills from +2 to +1
• Change FHR from +55% to +25%
• Change Mana from +89-112 to +59-82

Spirit (Shield)

• Change All Skills from +2 to +1

As mentioned earlier. I would also lift lvl req to 35 or so. Especially for the sword and use in pally shields would bring a lot of other items in a far better spot. Both Spirits will still be more then viable. Although not everybody will like those changes…

@CharlesJT-1538

Insight

• Change Meditation Aura from Level 12-17 to Level 6-10

Not sure if we need that. Insight is good and has its purpose. With the changes we made to several other itmens we would create several good alternatives (QHW for e.g.).
So I would leave that (especially for end game).

@CharlesJT-1538

Grief

• Change Damage from +340-400 to +260-320

Since melee has its problems I would not lower that to that level. -50 would be enough for me resulting in a roll of 290-350. But since they obviously are not changeing existing itmens we would have to version with the older one beeing really powerfull and increasing in trade value even more. But lets hope, they will change existing itemns just by lowering existing rolls with -50.

@CharlesJT-1538

Enigma

• Change Strength from +0-74 (0.75 Per Clvl) to +0-24 (0.25 Per Clvl)
• Change Magic Find from 1-99% (1.0% Per Clvl) to 1-49% (0.5% Per Clvl)

That would be good. The massive strength is the problem. MF is just complementary. But same here will lift trade prices for older version a lot… So hard to make a suggestion here as well.

But generally I´m with you Nigma, Grief and Spirit should not be that good.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Necromant-2961

Stealth
Would support this! Would open up the room for others to be viable. Stealth is OP for the low costs!

@Necromant-2961

Spirit
As mentioned earlier. I would also lift lvl req to 35 or so. Especially for the sword and use in pally shields would bring a lot of other items in a far better spot. Both Spirits will still be more then viable.

@Necromant-2961

Grief
Since melee has its problems I would not lower that to that level. -50 would be enough for me resulting in a roll of 290-350.

@Necromant-2961

Enigma
That would be good. The massive strength is the problem. MF is just complementary.

Thanks for feedback and updated side discussion on REVAMP RUNEWORDS. Please note we cannot lift lvl req. of Spirit to 35 as it is tied to runes themselves (Amn is lvl 25).

---

Nerf Overpowered Runewords
I would like to propose sensible nerfs to runewords that are generally considered OP by the community as follows:

Enigma
Jah Ith Ber
Armor
+2 To All Skills
+45% Faster Run/Walk
+1 To Teleport
+750-775 Defense
+0-74 To Strength
Increase Maximum Life 5%
Damage Reduced By 8%
+14 Life After Each Kill
15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
+1-99% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change Strength from +0-74 (0.75 Per Clvl) to +0-49 (0.50 Per Clvl)
  • Change Magic Find from 1-99% (1.0% Per Clvl) to 1-49% (0.5% Per Clvl)

Grief
Eth Tir Lo Mal Ral
Swords, Axes
35% To Cast Level 15 Venom On Striking
+30-40% Increased Attack Speed
Damage +340-400
Ignore Target’s Defense
-25% Target Defense
+1-185% Damage To Demons
Adds 5-30 Fire Damage
-20-25% To Enemy Poison Resist
+20% Deadly Strike
Prevent Monster Heal
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
+10-15 Life After Each Kill

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change Damage from +340-400 to +280-340

Spirit (Shield)
Tal Thul Ort Amn
Shield
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana
Cold Resist +35%
Lightning Resist +35%
Poison Resist +35%
+3-8 Magic Absorb
Attacker Takes Damage of 14

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change All Skills from +2 to +1

Spirit (Sword)
Tal Thul Ort Amn
Sword
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
Adds 3-14 Cold Damage 3 Second Duration
+75 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds
7% Life Stolen Per Hit
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana
+3-8 Magic Absorb

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change All Skills from +2 to +1
  • Change FHR from +55% to +25%
  • Change Mana from +89-112 to +59-82

Stealth
Tal Eth
Armor
25% Faster Run/Walk
25% Faster Cast Rate
25% Faster Hit Recovery
+6 To Dexterity
Regenerate Mana 15%
+15 To Maximum Stamina
Poison Resist +30%
Magic Damage Reduced By 3

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change FRW from +25% to +15%
  • Change FCR from +25% to +15%
  • Change FHR from +25% to +15%

[Necromant-2961]

@CharlesJT-1538

Thanks for feedback and updated side discussion on REVAMP RUNEWORDS. Please note we cannot lift lvl req. of Spirit to 35 as it is tied to runes themselves (Amn is lvl 25).

Ok, true. But then I´v a radical idea of altering the receipt. Replace the TAL (lvl 17) with an IO (lvl 35). Still very affordable and farmable from NM countes. Means you swap 75 poison dmg on the sword and the massive 30% poison res with +10 vitality each? Maybe we lower mana then again a bit further. A Shael with lvl 29 would be not as good with 20% IAS and 20%FHR.

Thoughts on this?

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Necromant-2961

Ok, true. But then I´v a radical idea of altering the receipt. Replace the TAL (lvl 17) with an IO (lvl 35). Still very affordable and farmable from NM countes. Means you swap 75 poison dmg on the sword and the massive 30% poison res with +10 vitality each? Maybe we lower mana then again a bit further. A Shael with lvl 29 would be not as good with 20% IAS and 20%FHR.

Thoughts on this?

Instead of changing runes for making Spirit, how about we drop Spirit to +1 skills, and lower FHR and Mana a bit further while we bump up +skills on Lidless Wall to a roll between +1-2. That way, we have some good competition between the two shields. Below is what I’m proposing for Lidless Wall…

Lidless Wall
Grim Shield
Defense: 271-347
Required Level: 41
Required Strength: 58
+80-130% Enhanced Defense
+1 To All Skills
Increase Maximum Mana 10%
20% Faster Cast Rate
+3-5 To Mana After Each Kill
+10 To Energy
+1 To Light Radius

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Change All Skills from +1 to +1-2
  • Change Energy from +10 to +20
  • Change Mana Per Kill from +3-5 to +5
  • Change Faster Cast Rate from 20% to 20-30%

[Necromant-2961]

Overall good. But still you would have a pally shield at lvl 25 (the usual monarch for the rest much later is ok). The sword would still prohibit a lot of early items to be competetive. But anyhow, this changes would balance spirit a lot imho.

[Camperdabase-1845]

@CharlesJT-1538

Thanks for feedback and updated side discussion on REVAMP RUNEWORDS. Please note we cannot lift lvl req. of Spirit to 35 as it is tied to runes themselves (Amn is lvl 25).

there is the item_level_requirement property in the game properties table, I believe that this property can control the level req whether with positive or negative values, it would be enough to remove the magic absorption property 3-8 (spirit uses all 8 possible properties in the table) and use it to increase the sword’s req level to 35.

I unfortunately don’t have a computer to run D2r and do a test.

[Camperdabase-1845]

@Necromant-2961

Overall good. But still you would have a pally shield at lvl 25 (the usual monarch for the rest much later is ok). The sword would still prohibit a lot of early items to be competetive. But anyhow, this changes would balance spirit a lot imho.

The proposal I made is the simplest, all normal and exceptional paladin shields are limited to 3 socks. spirit to paladin only level 48+

[Necromant-2961]

Agree, as mentioned earlier, but not solving the early availability of the sword

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Necromant-2961

Agree, as mentioned earlier, but not solving the early availability of the sword

I still think the best nerf to Spirit shield/sword is to tone down to +1 skills, cut massive FHR in half, and reduce life and mana bonuses. I would not touch FCR as that might be too big of a nerf. These nerfs should more or less solve the early availability of this runeword without completely gutting it and still be a solid option for the player…

Spirit (Shield)
Tal Thul Ort Amn
Shield
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana
Cold Resist +35%
Lightning Resist +35%
Poison Resist +35%
+3-8 Magic Absorb
Attacker Takes Damage of 14

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change All Skills from +2 to +1
  • Change FHR from +55% to +25%
  • Change Vitality from +22 to +12
  • Change Mana from +89-112 to +59-82

Spirit (Sword)
Tal Thul Ort Amn
Sword
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
Adds 3-14 Cold Damage 3 Second Duration
+75 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds
7% Life Stolen Per Hit
+250 Defense vs. Missiles
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana
+3-8 Magic Absorb

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change All Skills from +2 to +1
  • Change FHR from +55% to +25%
  • Change Vitality from +22 to +12
  • Change Mana from +89-112 to +59-82

I think this would make caster shields more competitive with proposed changes, such as…

Lidless Wall
Grim Shield
Defense: 271-347
Required Level: 41
Required Strength: 58
+80-130% Enhanced Defense
+1 To All Skills
Increase Maximum Mana 10%
20% Faster Cast Rate
+3-5 To Mana After Each Kill
+10 To Energy
+1 To Light Radius

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Change All Skills from +1 to +1-2
  • Change Energy from +10 to +20
  • Change Mana Per Kill from +3-5 to +5
  • Change Faster Cast Rate from 20% to 20-30%

---

To force casters to consider investing points into energy and make things like mana management, mana leech, and warmth more relevant in the game, I still think Insight needs a hefty nerf as follows…

Insight
Ral Tir Tal Sol
Polearm, Staves, Bows, Crossbows
Level 12-17 Meditation Aura When Equipped
+35% Faster Cast Rate
+200-260% Enhanced Damage
+9 To Minimum Damage
180-250% Bonus to Attack Rating
Adds 5-30 Fire Damage
+75 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds
+1-6 To Critical Strike
+5 To All Attributes
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
23% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

• Proposed Nerfs:
  • Change Meditation Aura from Level 12-17 to Level 6-10

---

Lastly, another runeword that could use a modest buff is Rift, and would also like to see it expanded to Spears and Swords. I think this runeword needs IAS to make it viable for slower weapons and bump up effectiveness of Nado and FO as shown below…

Rift
Hel Ko Lem Gul
Polearms, Scepters
20% To Cast Level 16 Tornado On Striking
16% To Cast Level 21 Frozen Orb On Attack
20% Bonus To Attack Rating
Adds 160-250 Magic Damage
Adds 60-180 Fire Damage
+5-10 To All Attributes
+10 To Dexterity
38% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
75% Extra Gold From Monsters
Level 15 Iron Maiden (40 Charges)
Requirements -20%

• Proposed Buffs:
  • Add +40% Increased Attack Speed
  • Change Tornado Level from 16 to 20 and Cast from 20% to 25%
  • Change Frozen Orb Level from 21 to 25 and Cast from 16% to 20%