Some of the comments here are just absolutely ridiculous:
Oh you must be an incel with no social life
It’s not fair!
Why do you need more loot?
etc etc
The only people /players 8 hurts are bots and people who use D2JSP. Full stop. There are people who have 20k FG on JSP and can basically just gear up immediately for every single ladder. I would love for someone to explain how having /players 8 is hurting you personally…Unless you have something to lose. You know that is people found more stuff, the third party sites would cease to exist because they would make no money? Do you like 75% of the games being D2bits or D2Honor?
Fact of the matter is, there would be no reason to bot because people would be fining more stuff (self found) and not need to use JSP all the time. I enjoy playing with others when I am questing in Norm/NM/Hell and that won’t change. People who like to play with other people will still do so.
So if you really want to stop botting, make it so it is not profitable to do so anymore.
It’s actually the opposite. People who are not dedicated enough to get good gear over a long period will not profit as much as bots do from using /pX. Sure /p8 would drop way more loot but to actually profit from it you would need to able to farm at this difficulty efficient. And most people that like to get /pX playing MP are not able to farm effient enough at /p1 already. There reasons people gearing up using FG and actual money. Having /pX would make the bots profit way more in the end, it does not make Jah, Ber, Griffon etc. drop from the clouds…
It’s a fact that grouping up makes less sense at some point using /pX online. Geared bots could farm super efficient at some point finding even more since there running 24/7.
I’d bet lots that lot of people complain because they play 2h a day and getting frustrated not finding much. Lots of RNG is involved too, but still.
/playercount hurts anybody who wants to group up in pubs and especially those classes/builds that can’t farm p8 solo efficiently. It would turn multiplayer to a mostly single player experience, since it would be always a disadvantage to group up.
It also wouldn’t stop bots, since noobs that beg for /p8 have no clue about the game and are not dedicated enough, while bots would profit a lot, since they could just easily increase player count to p3 and farm right away with the most efficient builds.
The thing about jsp you mentioned also shows that you have no clue in that regard. Look up early ladder prices there and you will find that a single Ber rune is sold for 10-20k on the first day and sub 100 now. So it would be a 1time thing for people to buy stuff immediately xD
Jester is absolutely right with his statement that p8 doesn’t make the gear rain and if you struggle to find those items now, you won’t find them with p8 either.
Found the botter. You people make me laugh. Nobody is saying that you just turbo right into P8. Diablo 3 had a torment meter and nobody want right to the highest possible. You can start at /players 3 and work up. And it does not even need to be a slider. It can be a map or something that spawns a big /players 8 type area to farm.
Or simply remove botters and the D2Honor and D2Bits spam so I can find games with people in them. This is not hard.
You’re just another of those frustrated player that come here and accuse others to use bots just because they can see what it would to with the game having /pX in MP. You’re not dedicated enough or not have enough time to be on top, and it’s nothing I would judge.
Yet just another of these clairvoyants…
First of, most dedicated D2 player think that D3 sucks, thats still a matter of opinion. But your idea of changing a game that worked pretty well for 20 years is just ridiculous and antic. There also reasons why D2 is good and successful. There even reasons why people that complain about D2 so damn much still play it
Nobody will remove D2Honor and D2Bits nor JSP, there many many other seller than just these too. They give a F about thoose seller or lets say they even profit from them lol.
You still didn’t realise that Blizzard is all about profit, and I won’t blame them, for them it’s not just a game. It a yacht or a nice Lambo lol.
This is a totally fair point and one I’ve been concerned with in the past. The /players x discussion always gets simplified down to adding the chat command, but I hate the idea of “command scumming”, swapping player count back and forth to manipulate drops/difficulty. I don’t even do that on SP.
For MP, I’d prefer a setting on game creation, something like a “Minimum Player Count” entry that sets a floor for it, so if it gets set to 5, it would still go up if 6-8 people join the game, but would act as at least 5 players in-game for 1-5 players. Obviously, this could not then be changed in-game, only by making a new game with a different setting.
Dig through all the patch notes and compile a bullet point list of all the changes. Heck, sometimes the bullet point list of a single patch is very long. The complete list will be VERY long. You’ll quickly realize the game has been constantly changing in substantial ways. It has never been static. Your premise is false.
Ofc there changes made, some good some bad, implementing /pX in MP would be bad for many reasons. I did not say every change is bad, I said that the ideas this accuser and many others made are just ridiculous.
The way they implemented Sunder and Mosaic are just one example how bad changes are made, does not mean we should add more stupid things.
For example I wouldn’t mind if there is a /pX setting when creating the game without the benefit of loot.
Moving Cain wasn’t a good change and still they did that. Yea the lists are long but are they good? Did I said the game is static? Don’t put words in my mouth that I didn’t said. Your premise is the false here.
There would be so many things to improve the game by adding and changing some non existent and uniques that became useless because of some overpowered RWs. Sure most of them need really rare runes but 90% of uniques are useless because they made at the time RWs didn’t exist and got exceeded by far.
These are changes I would rather like to see than a stupid command to make myself feel better cause I have found more items.
Accusing someone without proof isn’t a good way to start a conversation either. He’s totally right with his words.
So an exploit (increased drop rates) that is currently used only by a minority of players (because it is hidden behind unpleasant activities) and literally all bots (that are in the thousands if not tens of thousands) is good for the health of the game in general? If something is avoided by most players that’s a proof that the design sucks. Again, putting candies and big turd in a box and telling the player that he can have them only together is bad design.
Nerfing all drop bonuses to /p1 would actually not affect the majority of players (except those who want more drops with easy exploits - like Odin) but it would nerf the drops for everyone else looking for drop exploits, this includes bots. If people play multiplayer only for the drop exploit then that activity deserves to die. If D2 multiplayer is as amazing as you describe it (and increased drop rates isn’t the only reason to play it) then people will continue playing it with /p1 drops too, you don’t have to worry. If you don’t agree then you admit that D2 farming is played primarily for increased drop rates.
As an example, in Deep Rock Galactic you get the exact same loot as in single player (but more XP). Still, most people don’t want to play it solo. It’s an order of magnitude more fun in MP for other reasons than 2-3x more loot because it has been designed to be a fun MP game.
So you play solo most of the time because according to you D2 multiplayer is amazing? You contradict yourself. Why do you play solo most of the time instead of joining and amazing MP session in the lobby? Or do you mean solo like my solo playstyle with multiple accounts for increased drops?
Farming in D2 with strangers sucks, that’s why only a minority of players do it along with bots and players like me who can afford a strong enough PC with multiple accounts. MP farming in D2 is used primarily as an exploit to get more drops.
What about giving /p1 drops to everyone including bots? Let’s remove an exploit from the game. I like difficult video games, challenge accepted on my side.
I totally see that and I like the idea of being fair. That’s why advocate for either adding /p8 to solo games OR removing the increased /p8 drops everywhere including multiplayer games. Just because an exploit is hidden behind unpleasant activities it is still an exploit.
If you want challenges in a game like D2 then you have to add well designed challenges like torch farming or something similar. Not exploits like 2-3x drop rate as soon as you have enough players in a MP game. That’s just too easy to exploit. And interestingly the players who use that exploit are the ones accusing me of wanting easier games. Let’s remove /p8 drops everywhere, let’s see if they can live without their easier game modes and increased drop rates.
I didnt say I want to drop bonuses to /p1 ? Not sure what you talk about now.
No its because i am lone wolf and I always used to be one in D2. Well not exactly always , mjaority of time but i have times when i play with others and share loot. I still join split farming and others when leveling. I prefer to play in duo or trio when I do MF with people I know.
Only if you are greedy and also play with greedy people. If you find people who are not like that, your experience will be much better.
Also you are missing the point, its not just farmind. People constantly talk here and in other topics about loot drop completely ignoring XP bonus of /players X which makes playing with others completely obsolete and worse in basicly every aspect.
When season starts,
You keep talking about game mechanics as exploit. Its not an exploit lol. Its how game works. If you are willing to join your own mules, go for it. It doesnt mean you are exploting anything.
What do you mean? Like that terrible solo loot for everyone from D3? No thank you. Shared loot is making game much more immersive.
Again there is no exploit. more players in games decreasing nodrop is game mechanic. Please stop calling it exploit lol
You must be a beneficiary of those increased MP drop rates. Otherwise you would have no reason to defend that mechanism with tooth and nail because it benefits only bots and a miniority of the playerbase.
Others’ greed is out of my control. The multiplayer design of D2 rewards antisocials/psychopaths/sociopaths - like the guy who was joining baal runs a few days ago only to hostile and kill others. Currently the easiest and least time consume way to avoid them in a way that still benefits from increased MP drop rates is buying a strong PC and multiple D2R accounts.
D2 was clearly designed as a single player game, multiplayer was only an afterthought. The internet and multiplayer game design was in its infancy in 2000 so I can’t really blame the designers, they couldn’t just build on top of the experience provided lots of other multiplayer video games. However, trying to attract the players into a badly designed MP experience with increased drop rates was clearly a mistake. It didn’t turn D2 MP into a good experience and it is used only as an exploit to get more drops.
No, this isn’t about ploot and/or account bound items. This is about overall drop rates: preventing people from getting more loot by killing the same number of monsters within roughly the same amount of time.
If increased drop rates are the only reason to do D2 farming in multiplayer then the design is bad. People play it only to exploit the higher drop rates. Otherwise you wouldn’t fight for higher drop rates with tooth and nail, you would just continue doing your multiplayer farming sessions for the other things that make it so “amazing” in your opinion. BTW, what are the things that make MP farming in D2 so amazing? I’m VERY interested.
However, as a self proclaimed “lone wolf” who prefers playing solo (in D2 and I guess in other games) you might not be best person tell us what makes good multiplayer design.
But others do and that’s what matters. If I designed a multiplayer game I would rather rely on the opinions of those who actually want to play a well designed mutliplayer game instead of asking for the opinion of someone like you: a self-proclaimed solo “lone wolf”.
Almost every single exploit in gaming history is a buggy or badly designed game mechanic that gives dispropotionally high rewards. The one in D2 is clearly an exploit. Getting 2-3x more drops by killing the same number of monsters with a decked out lightning sorc or something similar within roughly the same amount of time.
only problem with that is baal runs and other public mf runs etc would just become instantly dead, every single person would play priv and use p8 command. probably the same at resets too, people would play solo and play p4-8, it would kill the game. keep it as it is
You must be new here. Stupid things were added/changed in this game during its entire run… It’s not a question of if stupid changes will be made, it’s a question of when.
It is played only by a minority of the playerbase (and let’s not forget about private MP games used by bot farms, multi-account users) and only to exploit the increased drop rates. Removing /p8 drop rates from multiplayer games would eliminate that exploit. Unfortunately farming in MP games seems to have no other benefits (bad MP game design).
Baal runs would still benefit from other bonuses (increased XP, shared auras, higher clear speed because an additional player adds only +50% monster HP).
Most people join baal runs for the XP bonus for character levelling. The loot is usually grabbed by 1-2 players standing in the middle of the baal minions’ spawn location. Even after nerfing the MP drop rates to /p1 levels, Baal runs would still serve as an excellent tool for character levelling.
You must be blind, I wrote “should not add more stupid things”. “Should” does not mean that it’s not happening or where made. Also I wrote that there examples of stupids changes. Like what do you want to tell me with your message?
I never questioned if stupid changes will be/were made. Whats your point here…
However, I’m sure /pX will never come to MP
And certainly not just because 100s of people want it or like when OP thinks just because he called for an end of immunities that Sunder Charms where implemented cause of that. Also, Sunder charms are the single most overrated thing in D2 history. They don’t cut immunities enough to be worth using of their own, not even mention the penalty to your own resis you get. Even if you’re able to kill immune monsters now, without additional expensive items it’s far from worth sitting minutes to kill these monsters. It only made higher tier builds stronger and there is no benefit in terms of using it to MF. I think it mostly made Infinity even stronger, really “great” lol
Haha, line crossed. Its humorous that you make that assumption. Everyone leeches at times, even you mr all mighty Odin. If you have even been around as long as you say, or have played a character other than sorc.
If you took your rose colored glasses off and read what I said, MOST players (characters to be more specific) cant hack P5+. They just arent powerful enough unless you have end of end game gear and a stash full of charms. Then there is kill speed solo vs in a group.
Thus, thats why I said what I said, Px would be mainly for MF reasons. Some characters will benefit with leveling. Some will still enjoy the fruit of multiplayer for that.
P8 is amazing early on, you can build lower level characters on your own, so much faster with it.
Thanks for proving my point with this exact statement, only certain characters and builds can hack P8 solo.
Fair enough, good point about objects. Lower Kurast would be a honey pot with it. But really, so what, if you want to dedicate time to run those chests solo with p8, you should reap the reward.
Adjustments can be made, there is middle ground to be found with this. But I have zero faith in the current dev team to execute it to the extent it would require.
Thats offline, sure. But what if they made you select what player level at game create? That removes that variable.
The economy is destroyed fast enough right now with the bot armies that exist. Cant deny that. IMO P8 would be like a pebble in the ocean of difference.
Exactly. This should not be for 2 players to add 6. Its solo play only or nothing. You select the difficulty you want at game create, and roll with it.
This I agree. Questing is still primarily multiplayer, dueling needs work, and there needs to be more brought to that.
