That’s why it would need to be tested. At this point, it comes down to will to actually do the work. If I was a Blizzard developer, I would have all this done in a a few weekends and would have community test via PTR and provide feedback.
A 15% one handed buff brings a perfect ebotdz to 410dps, so grief is still better but not by much considering ebotd is more of an all-arounder and not a pure dps stick like grief.
Thundermaul ebotds would hit like 1600 max damage which would put it on par with a grief but that would make it absolute bis for shapers considering its capped at 5-6 frames for every other build.
An archon ebotd would hit about 780-790ish dps which is still a bit less than grief but not by too much (assuming 80% DS). So then stacking DS is the goal to beat grief.
Again that goes for shapers since most builds are capped to 5-6 frames with 2 handers. So on every other build that’d be like 600 dps.
That’s the problem with grief: 4 frames, deadly strike, already capped ias on a 1 hander 450ish average dps.
Two handers are strictly bad on every other melee class except for shapers and it seems this is the intended design philosophy they want established. For barbs it would take a lot to make a two hander comparable dps to two griefs for a ww barb. You wind up sacrificing too much.
A base weapon damage increase is definitely needed, but only a minor one imo (15% seems sweet spot). What are needed are good two handed only rws.
It’s funny to see people wanting to criticize other people attempt to improve the game just for values rather than the concept behind those values
Yes %base damage would have a positive effect on melee
But my point remains
No base damage buff
Give 2handers roll 2 sockets at larzuk and higher mod tiers, this could be mimicked by giving 2hander a x% affix bonus (magic, rare, unique Rw)
And make melee skills worth being invested in by giving them by giving them flat damage per lvl
Sorry I meant in terms of impact to the game. I suggested specific bases get a damage boost and of those that should get the highest boost like slow 2 handed weapons, add +5 average damage. Any enhanced damage and ethereal will multiply on this, potentially adding up to 37.5 average damage on an ebotd.
This is sorely needed, seeing each whirlwind or strafe point only add an effective 0.5 to 0.75% damage each time is sad.
You could do both and grief will still be better probably (unless you’re saying even runewords on a 2h get like a 15% buff)?
The easiest thing they can do for 2h is add the str bonus to all 2 handers that exists on thunder mauls and increase it. 1.5x ED per point in str on maces, 1.4x on axes 1.2 on swords. I think it would be better to incentivize two handers to be the top tier dps weaps by incentivizing players to put most of their stat points into strength.
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It’s not the lengths you go to say something but the attitude behind what is said. I would have left it alone if the comment was less inflammatory and didn’t misrepresent my views on the topic. That’s all.
My PTR Feedback was 1) my feedback, and being my feedback it won’t have everything, and 2) it was also an invitation for others to leave constructive points that hinge on the feedback I raise. I saw you write a comment there that I haven’t addressed yet, but is a valid concern from reading it at a glance.
My intention is obviously not to nerf melee, but a call for devs to approach balance more intelligently. This is also why I referenced my other forum post that has a large list of practical balance changes. I hope you understand.
Both threads here:
PTR Feedback
Balance Change Suggestions
Hustle makes almost every single unique melee weapon useable all the way to hell. There is no way this dev team has the resources to shift that balance to class skill rebalancing.
Hustle is the spirit of melee players. This balance aligns with the design philosophy of 1.10. I don’t like it but I also understand the direction this game has continually gone in since 1.10, especially because I’m a pretty much exclusive melee/barb player and I understand the shaft that has been given to melee for decades while casters keep getting power crept.
Hustle is the rational response to spirit/insight existing. Two runewords that trivialize the early game experience for casters and allows them to ignore the fact that casters were fundamentally balanced around mana resource management. Melee was in a sense but they gutted leeching back in 1.9 or around there and melee attack speeds (which is why ebotd and grief were the 1.10 dev solutions to those nerfs).
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Could be
2h buff
Magic: 40%
Rare: 30%
Unique set: 25%
Rw: 15%
Rw has to be considered has it would drive people to create 2handed version of runewords instead of 1h being BIS
You spoke of grief, maybe some builds would benefit from a 15% buffed 2handed version
This could even open up some weird itemization
I don’t mind this too. Strength is under-utilised.
Whoa, the thread kind of got off the rails today!
I agree with both Onadroig AND CharlesJT, and I’m not saying that to be diplomatic.
I actually agree with Onadroig’s premise that D2 is too easy for casters, and that buffing melee to their level will basically trivialize endgame. Rather, the ideal solution should be to bring all classes to the same difficulty level of melee so that the game still retains challenge. I’ve said it before, but the reason I haven’t recommended this approach is because I don’t think there’s tolerance at Blizzard or in the community to nerf casters, and I also don’t think Blizz Albany has the coding resources available for such a massive meta programming shift.
With that in mind, I agree with CharlesJT that the low hanging fruit he mentioned should be tackled. Those coding changes are SUPER simple to execute, and will bring melee to closer parity with casters. There would still need to be more buffs after that, I bet, but that’s why it’s called “low hanging fruit”. 
P.S.: I must have missed something. Who is bowa? I don’t see anyone named bowa in this discussion.
EDIT: Ooooh, Onadroig is the streamer Bowa. Sup dude! That said, I’m not going to comment either way on Hustle in this thread. Want to stick to systems-level changes and discussion.
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I think “soft nerfs” could help. Again I don’t think they will address this either. But maybe change Defense stat to my previous point to negate flat damage, then buff monster damage. Not only does this make the defense stat actually matter in an easy to understand way, but it makes builds that don’t want to invest strength for more armor have to contemplate this task more. I really despise this get to 156 strength exactly, dump the rest into vit approach. It takes away a lot of design space.
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- watch the caster overlords refuse changing this dungeon and dragons hit based defense sistem…
Changing defense to a modern concept of armor (damage reduction ) would make just too much sense , but this devs are terrified to do any significant changes … they are petrified and just trow this runewords… wich ignore every single melee problem…
*In before this new Omega barb runeword that resets your shouts on hit . Swords only (of course swords , god forbid You want to use a other wep) lolz.
Option b , slain monsters get auto horked 
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Seems we keep focusing on new things that maybe the Dev’s could accomplish/implement… maybe not.
In doing so, I would wager we get nothing.
I wish there was more outcry/support to implement what the Dev’s already showed us they can implement…
It’s at least something… which is way better than what I think we are about to receive… aka - nothing.
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Hell, I’ll take that too.
That said, with how simple some of the suggestions in the OP are to code (some less than 5 minutes), I don’t think more changes are that pessimistic of a prospect. I think the biggest hoop to jump through is just Blizzard deciding if they want to commit resources – any resources – to fixing the melee disparity in the game. If they decide “yes,” and spend 2 minutes to flip the +50% physical damage switch thay they’ve already coded, I can’t see them not spending a few more minutes to add some of the changes in the OP.
I think it’s a binary “changes or nothing” decision for Blizz. Hopefully they make the right choice. Patch notes aren’t out yet, so we’ll see if this last hurrah before D4 has any fixes soon I bet.
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Fingers crossed.
20char
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Yeah my take is if there’s no way they’re willing to commit the resources to “do it right” and rescale weapon damage, skill damage/ar, etc. then I’d be happy if we at least got the 50% damage holiday buff, but I’m a little leery of “asking” for that and inadvertently ending up with a less ideal solution. Sort of like a negotiation where you may go in high leaving room to be talked down, I’m shooting for the ideal, but that still leaves room for Blizzard to notice there’s community desire for improvements, and then do the “best” solution for the amount of resources they are willing to devote to it.
I can also appreciate the opposite fear that if we ask for things that are just plainly too far out of scope, they’ll dismiss them and we’ll get nothing.
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Didn’t they also do a day of 50% increased hit chance for physical builds/damage?
Pretty sure they did.
I’ll take both please.
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I remember 2X HP and the +50% damage buff, I don’t remember hit chance, but I wasn’t religious about following them either so it’s possible!
IMO one of the main issues is the gear sacrifices that melee chars have to make in order to keep acceptable hit rate that casters don’t, so doing something to ease that would definitely be welcome!
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id rather improve shrines than have temporary events to buff lackluster mechanics lol
He’s asking for that effect as a permanent buff, not another temporary event…
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