Zoram'gar Outpost Abandoned

[Amadis-draka (Amadis)]

@Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord

And at the time of this quest, they’re still Tidesages, which curiously enough tend to lose many of their death/water/storm themed abilities in favor of general void ones as they make the actual transformation into K’thir even as they gain tentacle.

They actually transform into K’thir during the quest. And were using void attacks such as Abyssal Bolt even before they transformed, and were raving about the Old God:

Tidesage Seacaller says: Ah… I hear the voice! The thousand truths!
Tidesage Seacaller says: I am blind no longer.
Tidesage Seacaller says: I drink in the infinite void.
Tidesage Seacaller says: I hear the voice! The thousand truths!
Tidesage Seacaller says: I will live eternal in the abyss.
Tidesage Seacaller says: My soul for the ancient one!
Tidesage Seacaller says: Oh… The writhing shadow comes for me!
Tidesage Seacaller says: The circle… I see the circle!
Tidesage Seacaller says: The drowned dream consumes me!
Tidesage Seacaller says: The tendrils of fate shall claim you!
Tidesage Seacaller says: The writhing shadow comes for me!
Tidesage Seacaller says: Yes… The circle… I see the circle!

Tidesage Seacaller

@Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord

You only encounter two kinds of Neferset. There’s the Voidwarped Neferset, which are not undead. They’re humanoid. And then there’s Neferset Denizens who are laying around with the corpse tag, but are never reanimated at any point during the quest. There’s no NPCs doing the reanimating. At no point is it ever mentioned the people were slain and reanimated.

It is implied at best, as you are right that it is never actually shown:

Neferset have been spotted wandering the streets of their city to the south. This would normally be no cause for alarm, except the Neferset were completely wiped out. I must ask you to investigate further… and if by some foul magic these reports turn out to be true, you must do whatever you can to contain this threat!

---

I cannot believe what I am hearing…

This is truly much worse than I feared.

The implication from the copses and the Voidwarped is that they were reanimated by the void, despite the humanoid tag.

@Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord

Sylvanas orchestrated this whole war. Saurfang and other Horde leaders were definitely complicit, but Sylvanas was fighting in northern Kalimdor and giving orders right alongside Saurfang. TO Saurfang in some instances. She is the one who ordered the burning of Teldrassil for instance, not him.

If Saurfang hadn’t gotten her there she wouldn’t even have had the opportunity to say the couple of words she did.

@Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord

And even when Saurfang left, the Orcs as a whole didn’t abandon Sylvanas’ forces. The Darkspear as a whole didn’t abandon it, even though Zekhan and some of his allies did. The Blood Elves as a whole didn’t abandon it, even though Lothemar and some of his allies did. So on and so forth. She still possessed significant forces. Forsaken were definitely her powerbase, but Sylvanas’ Horde was still pretty varied. The only major bloc Sylvanas lost seems to have been the Tauren/Highmountain after she imprisoned Baine.

Sylvanas did seemingly have the capacity to keep this conflict going. On and on and on. She and her troops weren’t complaining about the dire straights of their situation and Sylvanas fact was continuing to kill off their own as late as Nazjhatar. The Alliance and Saurfang’s rebel faction, on the other hand, were stating that they were reaching the end of their rope to the point where they feel that unless they stop her now, their future is sealed.

One can’t hold Sylvanas and the armies under her up as a threat that must be stopped now, or else all is lost, and simultaneously try to argue that she’s just a failure who never succeeds at anything and isn’t actually a threat to anyone.

I men we could say that absolutely nobody in the narrative has any conception of their situation, which is all funny and cynical in a dismissive “Ha ha, Blizzard can’t write” sort of way, but I think this marks an outright refusal to engage the material. That no matter what the characters may feel, think, say, or do, say, or act in regards to the world around them, they’re wrong.

While you are pointing out the state of things from Lordaeron to Nazjatar these are not the same situations as when the Horde rebels came to face Sylvanas at Orgrimmar, as while we see the Horde rebel and Alliance forces outside of Orgrimmar, the Sylvanas loyalist player does not see an equivalent or greater inside of Orgrimmar, and in actuality sees that there is much unrest and people opposed to Sylvanas inside the city still, which the honor Horde and Alliance players did not get to see.

@Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord

If we have no evidence indicating when they happen why’re you using them as examples of Sylvanas’ failures prior to her abandoning the Horde?

What did the Horde get out of its player’s War Campaign?

Marshal M. Valentine? Sacrificed by Nathanos.
Thomas Zelling? Executed in front of all of the Horde’s leaders.
Abyssal Scepter? Stolen back by the Alliance, used against the Horde, then destroyed by Talanji.
The Zandalari fleet? Blown up by the Alliance.
Derek Proudmoore? Saved by Baine.
Priscilla Ashvane? Immediately betrayed them.

As for Darkshore itself, most things indicate that the Night Elf victory happened after the first round of the Alliance version of the warfront proper itself. Nathanos is no longer at Darkshore (having headed back to Zandalar before the Battle of Dazar’alor, and then we see him for Nazjatar before he goes back to Orgrimmar, and he doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, either). The Horde’s version of the warfront is set right after the Alliance intro questing since the Horde has to save Belmont, and since that’s always the case and generals don’t change like at Arathi it would seem this is a gameplay mechanic like repeating dungeons rather than battlegrounds (Belmont also doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, so it’s not like the Alliance players recapture him every time, either).

And even outside the Darkshore Warfront we have support that the Alliance won:

@Carmageddon-hyjal

I think that canonically the Alliance side of Darkshore questing has to come after the Horde, because the Alliance fights an undead and corrupted version of Ivus after he was killed by the Horde during their quests.

So that’s in-game evidence that the Alliance is winning in Darkshore.

But there is something earlier you pointed out that I would like to note as well:

@Tamanii-wyrmrest-accord

Sylvanas just kept winning- especially when you take into account her grand scheme was to artificially extend the conflict going as long as possible in order to generate as much death as possible

Sylvanas winning at causing as much death as possible is not winning for the Horde, nor is it any indication of the Horde’s strength. Quite the opposite, the more Sylvanas was winning, the weaker the Horde was getting as well, as she killed them off right alongside the Alliance.