Zoram'gar Outpost Abandoned

Lore Story Forum
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While doing the Alliance side Darkshore Warfront introductory questing for a tenth alt it dawned on me to look into something. Some people have argued to me that because there are some Forsaken Rogues at Zoram Strand during said questing and no Night Elves at the strand that it means that the Horde controlled all of Ashenvale. This is clearly a considerable amount of jumping to conclusions, given we never see any of the rest of Ashenvale at any point during BfA, and especially considering there had never been any Night Elves on the Zoram Strand in game at any point, just some Naga, Hydras, and the occasional Twilight’s Hammer cultists.

But then it dawned on me to check Zoram’gar Outpost during the quest and see if the Horde was there.

For reference, this is Zoram’gar Outpost outside the quest, in game set still back in Cataclysm’s past:

And this is Zoram’gar Outpost during the quest:

The NPCs are all gone. Now, most obviously this was just Blizzard not taking the time to put any NPCs in an area that the players weren’t going to interact with at all for the quest - though, to note, this is before the instanced scenario, so still on the overworld itself, just phased for the quest.

And Blizzard didn’t actually update Zoram’gar Outpost at all, still having it surrounded by Night Elf ships, just as it was redesigned for Cataclysm:

But we also know from A Good War that Zoram’gar Outpost had been abandoned by the Horde and left to ruin after the Siege of Orgrimmar, and, much like Astranaar, the Horde seems to have marched away from Zoram’gar Outpost to continue to Darkshore and Teldrassil during the War of the Thorns.

The only other references to Zoram’gar Outpost we really get are from the mission table missions:

    The Zoram’gar Docks will be vital for any assault against Azuremyst Isle. Plant depth charges to prevent any naval assault by the Alliance.

    Zoram'gar Outpost is the Horde's only port near Azuremyst Isle. Plant depth charges in the surrounding waters to prevent a naval assault.

But neither actually address if the Horde actually did end up stationing forces at Zoram’gar Outpost again during BfA, just the setting of depth charges - by both sides - in preparation for the possibility.

Nonetheless, I doubt anyone who thinks the Horde controlled all of Ashenvale before Tides of Vengence will take any of this into account, but was fun to look into any way.

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To be fair, it’s usually like this in phased/instanced areas. I wouldn’t put too much thought into it and maybe in a few expansions we’ll get a world revamp to actually know who’s in control of Ashenvale now.

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There is a slim chance that Blizzard might cover the state of Ashenvale, in the Horde Councial part of Shadows Rising.

I could actually see an interesting exchange here where Baine is blubbering about how we must give Ashenvale back since it wasn’t right taking it, then Geyarah comes in and reminds him her people can’t live cramped in a barracks forever, and Lorthemar eventually concedes lust for Ashenvale’s resources is how the Horde keeps getting suckered into these wars and with the maghar and forsaken needing resources to build new homes that problem wouldn’t go away.

Ultimately though they reach a compromise where they offer half of Ashenvale back in exchange for half of Arathi back for the forsaken and orcs. Things Alliance side though would go poorly derailing things with Genn, Trollbane, and Tyrande pretty much telling Anduin their not giving back an inch of Stromgarde to get back land the Horde stole from them.

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Than Anduin will start crying saying peace is all that matters and no price is too high. That he will sacrifice pride, respect and the loyalty of the other nations too make his peace a reality.

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Oh I could very well see Anduin just starting to give things to the Horde to “ensure peace”. Ashenvale being one of those things.

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Would not be surprised if NuBlizzard thinks Darkshore is more important to the Night Elves than Ashenvale and completely forgets or callously disregards the “sacred land” aspect of Ashenvale.

And if the Horde does take it, its only a matter of time before they render the land barren, stripped, and poisoned. And thus the Horde will look to conquer more lands.

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If such a scenario is written then perhaps its best that the armistice is broken.

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That’s a really small chance. :thinking:

The novel has half the story hunting Sylvanas with Alleria and Turalyon while Zekhan and Talanji are rescuing Bwonsamdi.

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No place for anything Night Elf related in that novel other than Sira serving Sylvanas.

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That is correct. Unless they were going to cut some stuff from Shadowlands, most if enough of Tyrande’s plot will be in Shadowlands.

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You’re citing the Alliance table missions to support your point.

The Horde table missions could be used to argue exactly the opposite.

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I think that’s a good way of redrawing the faction borders. While it’s true that the Nelfs won Darkshore we still don’t know the state of Ashenvale. As far as we know it’s still a fully Horde zone until stated otherwise. It’s also going to be tricky on where the Alliance and Horde might divide Arathi. Would they divide from Thandol Span? If so wouldn’t that make Hammerfall isolated from and land based Horde routes?

I would like it if the book gave a status reports on other zones like Feralas, the Barrens, Twilight Highlands, and the Badlands. The Horde is still operating in the Twilight Highlands because of the Vulpera quest. It would be neat to see what happened to Dragonmaw Port. Maybe it’s also occupied by MU Blackrocks that Garrosh recruited, but chose Vol’jin instead. Badlands also needs an update. It’s as desolate as the Blasted Lands, but the MU Blackrock exodus from Blackrock Mountain would probably have given it a larger Orc population. Since it was a Mag’har general that told the Vulpera to quell the peon communist revolution I wonder what the Mag’har’s thought about the EK Orcs. They are less green, and being away from the interment camps allowed them to keep the old culture.

I would imagine this is where more disagreements can spawn from. Tyrande does not care about Stromgarde, but Genn and Danath “the Horde is vile and don’t deserve a trial” Trollbane do. I think this will be a good reflection on the two sides of the current Alliance, and which one Anduin will be willing to appease more. On one hand the Nelfs have been fighting the war on their own, with some token help from the Worgen, and won Darkshore on their own. They deserve some recognition. On the other hand reclamation of a fallen human kingdom is a really good propaganda peace for Anduin.

It will also be cool to see if the Horde has any actual bite to them if they ever do negotiation scenes. The Cataclysm-MOP peace agreement was basically laid out by Varian. It was uncharacteristically generous for having the Alliance essentially conquer Orgrimmar for the rebels. If the Horde has cards to hold it would make the peace more bearable because it shows two sides attempting to compromise a satisfactory peace instead of one side dictating a peace that’s ordained by Blizzard. The negotiation between the two will even give insight on how the factions view specific pieces of land. If they’re willing to give a piece it must mean it’s not as valued as the land they want to take.

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Or the cost of holding onto it is prohibitive.

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I cited both. The Horde version says the outpost would be vital, but that could also be interpreted as not being manned yet, and wanting to prevent the Alliance from destroying the port before Horde troops can get there.

The only thing we really got of Ashenvale in BfA was the Night Elves and Horde fighting over it in the mission table missions. So, likewise, as far as we know, the Night Elves reclaimed Ashenvale before returning to Darkshore.

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Horde was supplying Darkshore via kodo caravans before the start of the warfront, that being the means of supply means the Horde reliably controlled land routes from Ogrimar to Darkshore and the only path there for caravans is Ashenvale.

The mission table likewise from the Horde perspective comes up as a game of whack a mole, where the Night Elves send squads/special forces to retake locations to use as staging points, but we rush in our forces to force them to fall back.

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The horde already has a ton of empty land they don’t need even a small inch of ashenvale

Your scene doesn’t work cause baine will tell that Sylvanas siding dumbo to sit down and pick land in the barren and should remind her that she knows literally nothing about Azeroth yet

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Lands that only Forsaken could live in though thanks to being naturally barren or ruined by the scourge, and that doesn’t change the Forsaken still need resources to build stuff.

Difference between Geyarah and Baine though is she has a spine and warrior spirit. Not knowing about Azeroth doesn’t magically make the barrens better for farming and lumber jacking than Ashenvalle or as we should start referring to it New Nagrand.

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They have all of lorderan lol
the horde lost the war, no the alliance shouldnt be having to give them anything.

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War ended in a stalemate, where Slyvanas abdicated by leaving and both sides decided they weren’t fighting anymore in light of more pressing issues.

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thats not what blizzard said at blizzcon, and either way theres this little thing that nations tend to do with each other called trade