Amadis:
Tamanii:
And at the time of this quest, they’re still Tidesages , which curiously enough tend to lose many of their death/water/storm themed abilities in favor of general void ones as they make the actual transformation into K’thir even as they gain tentacle.
They actually transform into K’thir during the quest. And were using void attacks such as Abyssal Bolt even before they transformed, and were raving about the Old God:
Tidesage Seacaller says: Ah… I hear the voice! The thousand truths!
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=130094/tidesage-seacaller#abilities
As I said, they lose their connections to death/sea in favor of more void abilities as they make the actual transition.
Tamanii:
You only encounter two kinds of Neferset. There’s the Voidwarped Neferset , which are not undead. They’re humanoid. And then there’s Neferset Denizens who are laying around with the corpse tag, but are never reanimated at any point during the quest. There’s no NPCs doing the reanimating. At no point is it ever mentioned the people were slain and reanimated.
It is implied at best, as you are right that it is never actually shown:
Neferset have been spotted wandering the streets of their city to the south. This would normally be no cause for alarm, except the Neferset were completely wiped out. I must ask you to investigate further… and if by some foul magic these reports turn out to be true, you must do whatever you can to contain this threat!
I cannot believe what I am hearing…
This is truly much worse than I feared.
The implication from the copses and the Voidwarped is that they were reanimated by the void, despite the humanoid tag.
Or rather that the followers of N’zoth, of which there are many in the quest corrupted Neverset and together, they wiped out the rest.
As good as a commander as Saurfang is supposed to be, there’s nothing suggesting that a successful of invasion into Kalimdor was only possible because of him. That Sylvanas would have never gotten to Northshore far without Saurfang.
Tamanii:
And even when Saurfang left, the Orcs as a whole didn’t abandon Sylvanas’ forces. The Darkspear as a whole didn’t abandon it, even though Zekhan and some of his allies did. The Blood Elves as a whole didn’t abandon it, even though Lothemar and some of his allies did. So on and so forth. She still possessed significant forces. Forsaken were definitely her powerbase, but Sylvanas’ Horde was still pretty varied. The only major bloc Sylvanas lost seems to have been the Tauren/Highmountain after she imprisoned Baine.
Sylvanas did seemingly have the capacity to keep this conflict going. On and on and on. She and her troops weren’t complaining about the dire straights of their situation and Sylvanas fact was continuing to kill off their own as late as Nazjhatar. The Alliance and Saurfang’s rebel faction, on the other hand, were stating that they were reaching the end of their rope to the point where they feel that unless they stop her now, their future is sealed.
One can’t hold Sylvanas and the armies under her up as a threat that must be stopped now, or else all is lost, and simultaneously try to argue that she’s just a failure who never succeeds at anything and isn’t actually a threat to anyone.
I men we could say that absolutely nobody in the narrative has any conception of their situation, which is all funny and cynical in a dismissive “Ha ha, Blizzard can’t write” sort of way, but I think this marks an outright refusal to engage the material. That no matter what the characters may feel, think, say, or do, say, or act in regards to the world around them, they’re wrong.
While you are pointing out the state of things from Lordaeron to Nazjatar these are not the same situations as when the Horde rebels came to face Sylvanas at Orgrimmar, as while we see the Horde rebel and Alliance forces outside of Orgrimmar, the Sylvanas loyalist player does not see an equivalent or greater inside of Orgrimmar, and in actuality sees that there is much unrest and people opposed to Sylvanas inside the city still, which the honor Horde and Alliance players did not get to see.
We both know that you can’t actually count actual in game models as being indicative. We’ll never actually see how many actual troops or actual ships are involved in a battle with actual numbers due to the limitations of the game engine and animation.
WoW communicates relative numbers, strength, and the overall situation through character dialogue.
What did the Horde get out of its player’s War Campaign?
Marshal M. Valentine? Sacrificed by Nathanos.
As for Darkshore itself, most things indicate that the Night Elf victory happened after the first round of the Alliance version of the warfront proper itself. Nathanos is no longer at Darkshore (having headed back to Zandalar before the Battle of Dazar’alor, and then we see him for Nazjatar before he goes back to Orgrimmar, and he doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, either). The Horde’s version of the warfront is set right after the Alliance intro questing since the Horde has to save Belmont, and since that’s always the case and generals don’t change like at Arathi it would seem this is a gameplay mechanic like repeating dungeons rather than battlegrounds (Belmont also doesn’t show up in the Alliance version of the Darkshore Warfront, so it’s not like the Alliance players recapture him every time, either).
And even outside the Darkshore Warfront we have support that the Alliance won:
I think that canonically the Alliance side of Darkshore questing has to come after the Horde, because the Alliance fights an undead and corrupted version of Ivus after he was killed by the Horde during their quests.
So that’s in-game evidence that the Alliance is winning in Darkshore.
But there is something earlier you pointed out that I would like to note as well:
Sylvanas winning at causing as much death as possible is not winning for the Horde, nor is it any indication of the Horde’s strength. Quite the opposite, the more Sylvanas was winning, the weaker the Horde was getting as well, as she killed them off right alongside the Alliance.
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The Army of the Black Moon did indeed beat the Horde in Northern Kalimdor.
But they aren’t acting in concert with the Alliance forces, and definitely not the Alliance forces that were all standing outside of Orgrimmar’s gates.