This is why I agree with their change. I’d prefer if Zekvir still gave credit for one delve toward your vault weekly, but people really went ham on it, so here we are.
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I definitely think it needed to be fixed, that said, I’d agree that a middle ground could have been found - at least for this season.
However, I actually don’t necessarily think that tying gear into things like Zekvir (or the likes of tiers 9+) is needed. I think that’s a bandaid fix for the real issue currently plaguing those modes.
Which is that the “prestige” rewards they offer generally aren’t all that exciting.
Few people complained about not getting gear from the original Mage Tower, but the lack of gear was offset by some genuinely fantastic and unique weapon transmogs.
Delves really don’t offer rewards like that. Titles and a void tint for a single mount aren’t super enticing. If the prestige rewards were better, I think people would feel less like there’s a void that needs to be filled there.
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Good take. They could put quite a bit more effort into the rewards we get as far as cosmetics and achievements go. They are pretty underwhelming.
All things considered delves are definitely still a rough draft I think.
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People pretending this is some sort of slap in the face to time-strapped casuals when it’s actually an oversight that was being exploited by the top 10% of the player-base is the ultimate in gaslighting.
We shouldn’t have to do any delves to get vault gear.
I think they could definitely have more effort put into them, and you’re right - Delves do seem to be in a first draft sort of state.
You get, what, a title for successfully clearing a T11? Another for doing so deathless?
I walked into a T11 as a 600 DK that could clear up to T10 pretty comfortably, and the T11 kicked my teeth in.
Granted, Zekvir decided to visit me for the second time ever while I was in the middle of fighting a group with an Elite (a Webspinner) - like the troll he is.
But I can totally see why someone would step into a T11, then go “wait, what do I get for doing this? Oh, a title? Yeah, no thanks”.
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If it takes you a few hours to churn through 8 delves, then you need to optimise your routes more.
On this alt, I managed to get a 7-8 minute fungal folly at the end of last reset while filling a last minute vault (12 minute server shutdown timer started pretty much right after the entrance, boss died at 3:30). That’s around about the hour per character which you said you found to be fine.
Run into the first pack, drag both spores to the enemies, root them in place. Dead.
Skip the next two explorers, go right to the middle avoiding packs. Use one spore to one shot the pack, careful not to trigger the second. Use the second to kill the little adds in wave 2 + weaken the mid tier one, pop cooldowns on the third wave, and when the first spore respawns use that too.
Next platform you pull everything and blow them up with the two spores that spawn.
Same with the next.
The last pre-boss platform you can kill the small pack normally and grab their explorer, then either avoid the big one through pathing, or lure it to one side and dash over to the other rescue the objective before it can interrupt you, then ignore it and let it follow you to the boss. Pop everything and nuke the boss, the entire room is full of spores that although doing very little to the boss, will let you kill off the add that followed you up at nearly no DPS loss.
But again that’s kinda the whole point isint it? The content isint engaging to the people that were spamming zekvir in the first place to fill vault slots to have a chance at gear that will let them progress further in content that is engaging to them.
It doesn’t really make much sense for them to nerf this because the people that this actually affects aren’t suddenly going to enjoy doing delves. Their just going to stop running the content all together.
Is it tho?
I ain’t feelin’ it.
“Delves take under ten minutes. I kill Zekvir in under a minute in the wrong spec.”
-Checks public profile. Sees 620+ ilevel and M+ 2200.-
Yeah. You’re not the target audience for delves, friend. Please shush.
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Didnt they make delves for EVERYONE?
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Sorry you shouldn’t get heroic gear for just running a couple of Zek runs.
And you shouldn’t get heroic gear for doing 8s either, the content is nowhere near difficult enough to warrant invalidating the first few key levels
That seems fine?
For what it’s worth, I didn’t really care that people were doing Zekvir, I just don’t feel like it’s something that should be a surprise. I personally wouldn’t have expected him to count in the first place.
But if people who don’t enjoy them stop doing them altogether, that seems fine. It’s not like raiding where less people doing them makes anyone else’s experience worse since the whole point is doing them solo or with people you enjoy playing with for the sake of spending time together instead of because they make it easier.
There’s a bit of the whole feels forced to do them to get an advantage in a different type that someone likes, but without either removing gear progression, splitting gear so that raid gear is only good in raids, M+ gear is only good in M+ and delve gear is only good in delves, or just making two types of content worthless past a certain point by having them cap lower than others, that’s always going to be something of a thing.
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The issue comes when they look at player engagement metrics for if a piece of content is successful and wether or not they keep iterating on the contact going forward.
Like i can absolutely see them nerfing gear next season and can absolutely see player engagement with them absolutely tanking.
here’s an alternative theory. They have a vision for the game, and these players are a minority that does not go well with that vision.
Delves are a new endgame pillar. This is a permanent addition to World of Warcraft going forward, and represents kind of a capstone to the outdoor world experience. We’ve had dungeons, we’ve had raids, we’ve had organized PvP, and I think we’ve, you know, had some stuff for outdoor world players to dabble in, but if you wanted progression, if you wanted goals, if you wanted a deeper more structured experience, frankly we were letting you down. We wanna change that. That’s what delves represent in World of Warcraft
- Ion Hazzikostas (Game Director)
We’re always going to provide what the player expects, our current active players, like what an expansion means. But we’re also adding to it, because we had underserved audiences. Which are the casuals, and to some degree midcore.
- Holly Longdale (Executive Producer)
It is content for someone that maybe doesn’t always have 20 to 30 minutes of uninterrupted time to play. I’ve got three kids, so sometimes that can be “I have 2 hours everybody’s asleep, or I have 5 minutes before I have to go AFK”, because you know, something bad has happened behind me.
- Sean Mccan (Lead Developer, Delves)
Along with your NPC companion, Delves can be explored solo or with a group of up to five, with any combination of classes. And, since they take 10-15 minutes on average to complete, they’re ideal for players who want to experience a meaningful game progression without significant time commitments.
- Announce Page, Battlenet
Seems Delves have a particular purpose and target a particular portion of the playerbase to me, which has been uniformly communicated by Blizzard.
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I dont see why that means its ONLY for casual players. Like if you aren’t one of them you cant have an opinion.
Because content shouldn’t be designed and balanced around people it isn’t for.
You have players that won’t ever really engage with the likes of raiding. Raids shouldn’t be designed and balanced to try and please those players - they should be designed and balanced for the enjoyment of the raiders engaging with the content.
Thus Blizzard are giving those players their own system instead, Delves. A system OP barely engages with, yet made a thread about.
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Well casual players get told they shouldn’t have opinions on mythic or M+ so yeah… pretty much.
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