I felt this way to an extent, but then I watched some of my guildies on different classes stream their runs. These are people whom I’ve known and played with for years. They know their stuff and are good at what they do. It was literally impossible for them (or the solution was so esoteric and inscrutable as to be virtually impossible). It definitely needed a fix lest some classes forever be restricted to soloing 1-3, and having to pug anything above that. The issue here is that Blizzard, in Blizzard fashion, appears to have over-corrected.
And that’s the problem.
They over corrected it.
They prioritized accessibility over good gameplay. When people get things easily and free they don’t value them even remotely as much as when they put in a lot of work to attain it.
It’s clearly a decision motivated by $$, not improving the health of the game and it’s going to hurt them increasingly more in the long term.
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This would’ve been great if it launched with this intention. For me, the intention of giving us a couple of “relatively easy” floors a week meant that the ceiling was always pretty much obtainable, so long as you played well. Some people weren’t clearing that ceiling, some were clearing it too easily. It was a tuning issue with specs, mostly.
Instead of fixing specs, they did a blanket buff to the content so that now even fewer specs were reaching that ceiling. That wasn’t a good move either.
If they wanted the difficulty to be the gate, then they shouldn’t have gated it. If they wanted it to be a growth in difficulty, it should’ve been a steady growth in difficulty. They already messed up by releasing it the way they did then letting it linger that way for as long as it did, so this blanket nerf to the content is an admittance that they messed up.
It’s a shame you enjoyed the challenge. I didn’t because I wasn’t playing it for the challenge, I was playing it to get the stuff I needed for the challenges I actually wanted to do. Tying soul ash to it and nothing else, while also not giving anything for an attempt to push my own progress without wasting my time, or any sort of other reward structure, made me hate this system, as much as I enjoyed the content itself up front.
They really need to figure out what they want out of these things and communicate that better. Because they took something with the potential of Torghast and ruined it for a lot of us with their delivery of it and then their decision to mess with it afterward.
If Torghast is meant to be a gear-based progression system, it needs to contain the proper reward structure to progress with. Otherwise it’s just a time-waster, and I don’t have the time to waste.
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If Torghast is so fun… why are you running it in a group?
Try doing it solo and see if it’s all that much fun when RNG is a make or break situation for many classes.
I’d think it would be incredibly easy as a group compared to solo.
I was just thinking this to. I could not stand the Island expeditions.
I wish Torghast was like rifts in diablo 3, at least you would be able to get gear out of it.
Okay, Mark Zuckerberg.
Why do you people think they made it so you got the vast majority of your soul ash from the lower layers? It literally wasn’t generally worth the time investment to push the highest layers if all you were there for was the soul ash and it was a struggle for you.
Think about it.
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You mean something that these changes will most likely affect and is a one and done?
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You could still get soul ash without doing layers 7 and 8 it would just be a bit slower. I was having fun ramming my head against the difficulty of layer 8, but wtv as long as the endless mode is challenging enough if it is the nerfs are nbd
what did you want to do exactly? heal the mobs to death?
As far as I read, Twisting Corridors just grants cosmetics.
So if that’s supposed to be the only challenging difficulty in Torghast, then nerfing Torghast ruins the feature and Twisting Corridors does nothing.
You’re right. I didn’t fully think about what I posted. Replace when I said +20 with +15.
As for the rest of what you said… I’ve already overly addressed all of that. If it’s like this over what was not meant to be an island expedition grind… I expect Twisted Corridors to get the same treatment because it has things most people will want (such as the mount that will be useable in the maw and requires layer 8 of TC). Most of the weekly soul ash was already available on the lower floors, the bonus amount you get for the highest floors is incredibly negligible.
Pretty sure most of those other competitive games are not subscription based though. Plus is WoW really a competitive game? Sure it has some competitive elements, but I really wouldn’t classify it as competitive. That’s whatever though.
Also, when the “scrubs,” as you put it, most likely make up the majority of the player base, Blizzard is going to cater to them. Blizzard can’t afford to alienate them so they can make the “top players” happy. If the “scrubs” are 55% of the player base and the “top players” are 45%, Blizzard is going to listen to the “scrubs” because it makes them the most money.
Blizzard already makes “challenging and deep gameplay” with mythic raiding and m+ keys, but look at how much of the player base participates in that. If Blizzard catered to that crowd, this game would be dead as “scrubs” drop their subs as they wouldn’t have much to play.
I will keep saying to these points until people stop emptily throwing them around.
lol nothing is ‘given’ to anyone in this game, stop making crap up or creating fake strawman arguments
always takes time, lots of time
time is what they care about most, it is the metric most directly correlated to cash shop buys like gold
if time is what they care about
why would they make an instance on avg take like 30-hour
now take like 10minutes to finish
oh because people couldnt handle side stepping a mob or a simple dps check
1 sec cast turn into 3 secs on a small aoe cone swing
if that doesnt spell human error i dont know what is
he always buffs himself up so you have a solid 5-10 secs to know its coming too
Probably the most bizarre aspect of the people complaining about the nerfs is acting as if Torghast involved some kind of mechanically interesting gameplay or wasn’t generally a boring slog.
It deserved a nerf simply for the reason that it deserved to be greatly sped up, which this does. M+, raiding, and PvP involve mechanically interesting gameplay. Torghast was just large damage-sponge health pools slapped on mobs to arbitrarily extend out how long it took to get them down, with a co-dependency on RNG anima powers to beat enrage timers.
Basically it was very easy to waste an hour of time and find out your powers couldn’t output enough dps against bosses that typically had like two mechanics before they enraged and would 2-shot you. Combining frustration with a very long, boring prelude is a horrible idea, especially with something that’s supposed to be a weekly activity.
If “better” players actually still NEED to feel more challenge in Torghast, then congratulations to them, they can skip a lot of anima powers and cut their run times down by clearing less of each floor. That’s a better reward anyway - one that saves time.
Bottom line:
A) Torghast was not some well designed solo challenge. It was boring, long and heavily RNG dependent. Not a good look for something that people will run weekly.
B) It needed to be sped up across the board. Only nerfs like this would effectively speed it up. I suppose you can make a case for eliminating a floor or two and saturating the remaining floors with more anima powers. That too could have been an option, and I’m sure I’d have been happy to see that done too if it had been done instead. But I assume the number of floors within a layer has a bit too much structurally bound to events and instance design (the kind of thing it’d require a full patch to change, not a hotfix), so hotfixes like this are a much quicker and easier method of accomplishing what needed to be done in a timely fashion.
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Actually, I’m pretty sure they wanted to make it infinite, so I’m going to say it won’t be a one and done. Who knows though.
nah if peeps ignore the activity because it sucks they are getting a massive net loss vs repeatable, somewhat fun, and able to avoid burnout
you act with some assumption that most players have endless free time, time to burn, but they don’t. They have to choose what is worthwhile. Torghast had crossed into ‘why bother’ for a bunch of layers and also made lots of players feel held back unfairly.
its not that hard to grasp. I do understand there are players that want challenge all the time but that is really a minority of players. This is an MMO, not a roguelike. Time must be rewarded with progression almost all the time.
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