You guys told me DPS is hardest in super high end content. Why?

it should be mentioned, some dps have it easier than others. melee vs ranged. paladins with full immunity bubbles vs warriors with far weaker cooldowns etc.

3 Likes

So you didnā€™t read the comments Hpellipsis gave you?

I meanā€¦ they wrote paragraphs for you explaining thingsā€¦

1 Like

Mainly because healing eventually turns into a proactive script because avoidable damage just kills people so thereā€™s no more reactively healing people who take avoidable damage. You still have to have your CDs metered out you messing those up will wipe the group, but a lot less of the ā€œhigh stressā€ aspects of healing are affecting you.

DPS itā€™s about understanding your optimisations all matter, and playing to make those optimisations at every opportunity is difficult.

If youre just playing to coast, DPS is easy, but in super high end content you canā€™t exactly coast and succeed.

Delegation of responsibility is also a factor, shotcalling in m+ is typically a DPS job and it makes playing DPS harder when you are expected to shot call.

1 Like

I guarantee you donā€™t need to be in very high keys to explore how to achieve this :upside_down_face:

ask me how i know? :smiley:

1 Like

Because doing high DPS is much different then just being a DPS. Tnksā€¦tank. Healsā€¦heal. But DPS are the source of enemies dying and progressing. If your low DPS your not good in high end content.

I love when dps does this, and also helps me set up some pulls, too, feels more coordinated and as if weā€™re advancing the dungeon side-by-side, as opposed to walking behind the tank, in a manner of speaking.

Itā€™s a bit awkward with prot paladin because I donā€™t know if youā€™re going to proc a shield and get a kick or not.

Iā€™ll usually just tell prot pala to lock X mob down and hold shield procs a bit if necessary to make sure of it.

1 Like

Yeah, and I will call out when i have a kick, but if i get a proc and someone has called ā€˜theirsā€™ before i got that proc, I will throw it on another caster mob to keep it silenced for abit longer (assuming no enraging), so im not wasting the proc and i can get the benefit of some talent synergies/tier set.

i guess in the end i just like communicative groups that donā€™t hesitate to explore the shared leadership role of completing a dungeon

oh yeah, if thererā€™s more than one - which there usually is, right? - then that focus helps.

What makes DPSing hard in high level content? Lots of things.

Once you get up to Mythic+ (10s and higher), things get veryā€¦ binary. Infinite scaling means you will reach a point where mob damage outscales the Stamina on your gear, meaning you either avoid ALL swirlies and interrupt nearly every high-threat spell, or you die.

You also have to do more and more DPS to keep up with mob health, so if youā€™re not doing your rotations near flawlessly, youā€™re going to fail a DPS check or run out of interrupts or make some small mistake and then you die.

You also have to deal with the current weeksā€™ affix nonsense, or else (say it with me) youā€™ll die.

Thatā€™s a LOT of plates to keep spinning at once, for 20+ minutes at a time, with almost no room for error.

2 Likes

i like the common phrase at the end of three out of five of your paragraphs. you must write a lot in your profession/hobby

1 Like

At the moment itā€™s kinda like this.

Tank: Routing + communicates with healer, calls movement.

Healer: Calls defensive scripts / unavoidable damage

Aug: Calls stops / general shotcalling

SP: Calls target swaps / damage optimisation to try and keep packs dying evenly / optimally.

Mage: Generally takes cognitive load from other members when necessary + keeps an eye out for potential problems as well as coordinates offensive CDs with the priest.

I can count on 1 hand the number of augs Iā€™ve played with who can actually call stops properly, as well as use all their utility correctly AND maintain 95%+ ebon might uptime in combat. As well as line up shifting sands with high damage moments.

1 Like

Like BM Hunter.

1 Like

thatā€™s so cool to me. itā€™s like iā€™m reading into a synopsis of the DOM, dungeon operations manual (compared to an air carrierā€™s FOM, flight operations manual), and in particular the dungeon ā€œcrew expectations.ā€

What level keys are you currently doing?

Iā€™ve got all my 19s done pretty much besides uldaman, was working on 20s but kinda done with the season now so 1-2 key levels below maximum.

3709.4 I think? Pugging title was a lot harder this season for various reasons, definitely felt like with some consistency I could have gotten higher.

1 Like

outstanding! thanks for sharing your insight, and not just in this thread.

What about DPS healers like MW, disc and hpal? Same applies, or a little diff?

Similar, healing unavoidable damage and scripting out group + your CDs to match predictable damage events is still the bread and butter of your relevant gameplay. Just because you heal with DPS doesnā€™t mean youā€™re expected to optimise DPS like a DPS, it helps to squeeze what you can (As it does on all healers) but itā€™s not going to have the impact it does when a DPS does it.

The larger factor is just healer tuning. The less margin for error / backup options you have the harder it is to build and execute healing scripts that get you through boss fights.

Fights like Malidrotha, Bromach, Iridius, and Khajin are notorious at high end for requiring a rigorous script of defensives and healing CDs to survive each damage event or in the case of Khajin to be efficient enough with healing to get to the end without running oom.

The reason I put healers slightly lower than DPS is, while your most relevant globals are extremely important, theyā€™re also notably infrequent. You can fill with healer damage between them but a DPS making constant damage optimisations is going to have more impact on the timer than a healer in those situations.

1 Like

As much as I like the idea of doing higher end content, the idea that I might have to do any callouts myself stops me.

Speaking verbally to people I almost certainly would rather avoid in any other circumstance is a hard pass from me.

Happy to listen. Not happy to talk. Iā€™m nonverbal with friends, let alone strangers.

Worth noting maybe 40% of my keys above title this season have been without voice coms.

I spoke about it in another thread but thereā€™s a point where communication can be substituted for heuristics pulled from a shared pool of knowledge. I know what youā€™re going to do, you know what Iā€™m going to do, and we both act in that shared knowledge and things become scripted / predictable to a degree. Obviously the more nuanced the situation the less likely weā€™re going to be on the same exact wavelength but you can type that kinda thing or cover it before the key.

Obviously thereā€™s less ability to play off the cuff / recover if something goes wrong, but thatā€™s the price you pay for no voice pugging a +19 Algethar Academy. If itā€™s mostly clean you time it, if people need more coordination than can realistically be managed through shared expectation then you donā€™t, you still learn a bit more about how people want to do things, as well as pick up ideas and optimisations for your own play.

Well thatā€™s lame.