I haven’t seen any of this, and I’ve been spamming RDF the past 2 days. The system already prevents queuing for Gamma unless your ilvl is at least 210, which is plenty considering how easy the dungeons are. People just want to get in and out as quickly as possible, so as long as you aren’t AFK you should be fine.
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Thank you for explaining that to me, it makes sense reading these examples. Especially from a tank perspective.
You likely won’t because they’re complaining about a problem that would impact 1/5 players in a dungeon group and are proposing replacing that with a new system that allows problems that impact 4/5 players in a dungeon group.
It is just boring concern trolling out of spite because they never wanted RDF in the first place. They were probably hoping to grief RDF groups and are being dishonest about why they were kicked in the first place.
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I had no issue as well my first 4 groups. My 5th group i noticed all 4 were from the same guild and server. After I summoned a soul well I got removed from group and 30 minute debuff. Thought I’d make a forum post about it, but it looks like more of an isolated incident based on the comments (which is good)
Players go where it’s most lucrative. To the detriment of their own fun. And when they realize they’re not having fun…they quit. Welcome to how WoW went from 12 million subs to 1-2.
Original Wrath got the balance the best. Raids were for challenging content for hardcore players. Dungeons were for casuals, and alts. And it worked beautifully. 2023 Blizzard don’t understand different players play the game for different reasons. So they apply this one-size-fits-all design philosophy to the game. They have no understanding of human nature in general, or their playerbase in particular.
I remember Wrath Heroics quite well. They were such a chill, relaxing experience. I literally never once had someone hold a group hostage, or refuse to do the role for which they queued. Never even heard of it happening. They were so easy, no one cared about your gear or your spec. So you got to actually enjoy it.
I’ll never be convinced these Mythic dungeons are good for the game. It turns players into toxic gatekeepers. Now everyone views other players as liabilities and barriers. This couldn’t be further from the Wrath dungeon experience. There’s going to continue to be threads about this kind of crap going on, just like anyone with a brain knew would happen.
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You’ve unfortunately attracted the if it’s not my problem crowd it’s not a problem worth fixing. I agree, that the system is being abused. Qued into a group last night that happily told me they kicked that last healer because his gear was too low (they were a group of 4 from the same server/guild). It was Gamma VH probably one of the easiest besides HoL/HoS to heal.
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Level 80 is garbage. Just wait for cata, avoid this nonsense.
Nice job misrepresenting the argument. It’s not that it isn’t a problem, it’s that the alternative is a worse problem
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Alright, I stand corrected, I misspoke. Though I still stand with my point. He didn’t say the problem doesn’t exist. However, the reason for my response is that his point is effectively very similar to saying the problem doesn’t exist.
This is super specific and rare → Not a problem for many people → Overall not a problem
It definitely isn’t an outlier situation in my experience, both as someone who’s played very casually, and also as someone who’s played with the types of people who are intolerant of mistakes/inefficiency in PUGs.
In fact, one of the strongest arguments for dungeon finder was that it was extremely difficult to run dungeons unless you were a tryhard, apparently because most of the groups were run by fearmongering slavers with unrealistically high standards. It makes no logical sense whatsoever that all these toxic players are suddenly playing nice and not abusing the kick system exactly the same way they were abusing their powers as group leaders before. 
With Dungeon Finder, there’s less individual, coordinated power to kick people out of groups, but that toxicity is absolutely still alive and well and absolutely does get it’s way quite often.
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In my experience Gamma RDF feels a lot like RDF in 2010. The dungeons are easy with the buffs you get, so there is no reason to care about someone’s gear level. The system takes care of that automatically. Had a number of people in the 4K GS range and no one cared. People just want to get in and out for maximum scourgestones.
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In your view, how is…
…a “worse problem” than the abuse of the vote to kick feature? 
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As I’ve explained multiple times in this very topic, a group of people ruining one person’s dungeon requires just that, a group, while it only takes one person going unpunished to ruin 4 people’s dungeon
Every system has problems. It’s childish to think there could be a system where nobody is harmed.
It IS an outlier situation for the average player. Honestly if YOU seem to get kicked more than the average player…. You really need to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why it is that many groups you join don’t seem to tolerate your presence.
It IS the best system that harms the least amount of players.
I’m not dismissing the problem, I’m dismissing your solution to it. I’m telling you it’s basic math that the current system negatively impacts FAR fewer players than what you and other people are proposing be done to address this.
You didn’t answer my question, which would be much simpler than branching away from the actual topic being discussed in the OP. Let’s try again:
(Response to the off-topic branch)
It doesn’t take a full, coordinated group to kick someone who shouldn’t be kicked. Many people will simply vote yes whenever they see the vote to kick pop up. Many people are easy to sway into this kind of thinking. Many people are uncomfortable to speak up when this happens and they silently go with the flow to they can just get the run completed. To think that this only happens with 4-stacked groups from the same server and/or same guild is just incorrect.
Who’s proposing a system where no one is harmed?
I’ll go ahead and pose the same question to you that I asked Noxranna above ^^
“My solution”? What are you talking about?
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There are logs, that is why I suggested they report the premade for griefing. If they are doing this a lot, it is pretty good indicator that they are infact greifing other players.
Report it. They are hoping we won’t.
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Well, the forums often paint an inaccurate picture. But the fact remains this is not authentic Wrath content, and completely unnecessary. The old system would have done the job just as well, with more accessibility and far less probability for toxicity.
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This one? The solution you’re implying? Remember that? From just a few minutes ago, Dory? Asking how requiring 3-4 players to grief one player is worse than one player griefing 4. There is no point in debating somebody like you as you have no intention of an honest discussion. You’ve already decided.
Most people don’t want a system where one person has the power to grief 4. It causes more harm to more players.
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Yes I did.
Perhaps so. Then again, with this system people are grouped with similar gear levels, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In OG, one person could be full heroic raid gear, and another would be a fresh 80. That can cause friction in groups.
Mythics are the best thing added to wrath. The old system was out dated and horrendous
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