You arent seriously giving sub back the silence in dragonflight?

This would be too strong unless sub is losing a lot of its burst potential it currently has.

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Imo the double vanish and cooldown reduction tied to vanish will be way more busted and problematic than sub getting garrote back. Alot of classes are getting more cc/utility (mm hunter getting intim stun for example) that could counteract silence from rogue but sub is the only spec to receive so much cdr


Our tools should have never left in the first place as rogues, Dance is down to 10%, Symbols is down to 10%, Nightstalker will remain at 8% most likely, Kryian nonsense was just tuned down to give 3 finishers in DF for those who cheese with that style. You can’t have everything (good thing) so people will have to sacrifice survivability for power and the other way around.

We are rogues and should have our entire kit, people should be looking at assassination and outlaw instead of pointing fingers at us Subtlety. Plenty of opportunities for Outlaw and Assassination to get ambushes off in combat and have access to Dance if they choose to (very cool).
Without a trace is rightfully ours as we are the most heavily dependent on stealth and rely on vanish. You also have to diversify your stuff, if you want to meme, there will always be a way to do that on any class. You’ll have your pants down and as soon as someone figures out what to do, they will fix that behind as a result.

Most of the nonsense people keep drawing attention to will most likely get nerfed like crazy anyway. If a rogue wants to talent into Shadowdust and vanish 2x to get 20 sec off his crap then so be it, you smoke them next go.

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I mean I’ve put in a full setup on a paladin - just to have him turn around and kill me 100-0 in 2 seconds, and then heal to full the next global so…

Rogue is not a mindless class…they take a lot of skill to pull off unlike some of what’s out there.


Hell give us disarm trap back, too.

Agree with Ghosted, and I know I don’t have rated PvP gear but god… there’s a lot of CC and burst across many specs.

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Hides behind alt and complains about sub rogue, which requires near perfect coordination and execution with its teammates so that it can have 1 strong comp.

I smell low rated player that mains a 2 button class and doesn’t know how to fight rogues and then just complains about them being OP before the new expansion is even in beta.


Ok lets be honest here and not say those things about rogue in the current state of the game. Calling “3 2 1” on discord so that the team can land chastise and db and kidney at the same time is neither “perfect coordination” nor “a lot of skill.” If somehow the rogue is dumb enough to leave a gap in the cc chain they have shadowy duel to fall back onto. I wouldn’t say the spec is necessarily easy to play (although it’s undoubtedly the easiest it’s BEEN to play), the comp it plays is so mind numbing compared to the level of awareness it used to take before, especially with frost/disc variations of RMP.

Oh and I’m speaking about sub specifically. Sin is so braindead easy it’s not even worth mentioning and monkeys with their fingers taped onto sepsis and vanish and FoK and play just as well as an ordinary 1500 sin rogue.

I could care less who gets what, everyone should have tools to deal with situations. No one blinks an eye when warlock hits you with fear, mortal coils , succubus booty shake, shadow fury, fear etc but stars above forbid one of us fires off on people.

It’s time our kit is back, there’s no reason it should have left.


and assassin is going to get what exactly to compensate for outlaw and sub having a silence back?

Believe me I love having dismantle back for all specs but im fearing that Assassin will not have enough of a niche, if the other 2 have more control and end up doing the same amount of damage in pvp why would people play assassin? the 40% healing reduction i guess if that doesnt go the way of the dodo

My impression is that sub will be the go-to pvp spec over sin because of the silence reason on top of other utility. I’m fine with that because that’s the way it’s traditionally been and should be imo.

But then again deathmark looks like a strong CD unless you have a survival hunter or dwarf on the enemy team to dispel bleeds.

I dont want to go back to Sub or bust for pvp those were the dark times.

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To each their own I guess, but sub being meta over sin isn’t anything new.

And I don’t think sin will be bad just alot of people would have alot of reasons to go sub over sin.

Kinda like how outlaw was this season. It was the better spec but it didn’t mean sin or sub were bad

If you don’t play sub in pvp you ain’t a real rogue

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Do what your heart desires dude, we are rogues. Assassination has a lot of cool stuff in your tree with the mutilates applying a portion of the damage as poisons (further tying into VW or mastery) and the ambush procs etc. it will still be solid. More mobility on Assassination now too on the right side and double poisons will make Assassination a big threat, not including hemotoxin. It’s possible for that multi bleed spread talent to be able to smoke multiple people at once too. Have fun healing through that heh.

Us Subtlety rogues and Outlaw kids still will have the weaker poisons. Master Poisoner works as 20% of X, not a flat 20% for example on crippling to make it 70%. On top of that, you also have deadly brew and 2 new poisons to further differentiate yourself.

All 3 of us have a good kit, not having dismantle def sucked. Now all 3 of us can garrote a succubus for example or gouge while a team mate follows up out of that and we can use Kidney on the kill target instead of having to Cheap shot those jokers.

I dig, simultaneously planning around when people don’t have outs to clear things is our condition to smoke jokers unless they don’t use it and get complacent.

It’s all ebbs and flows in the end. A smart hunter can save their stun anyway and throw a solid trap, concussion out of that or whatever and Steel trap . Rinse and repeat for anyone. If warlocks get access to fel guard down demonology , they can stop any go pretty easily too.

We just plan moment to moment and adapt. It won’t be a big deal.

It’s not that playing rogue takes a lot of skill. It’s more like some specs take no skill.

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Very well said

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Nice combo: categorisation and ostracism - 2 in 1.
Maybe all who don’t wear pirate transmog aren’t real Outlaw? Or all who don’t wear purple aren’t real Sub? Go on, I will make some popcorn to watch it.

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Hiding behind fresh char, expected

But yes in pvp, assa is usually a gimmick one shot build with a boring a simplified rotation and outlaw is so broken with CDR atm that they can just press buttons whenever they want and have 0 punishment

Sub is the only spec that has to play cleanly and do consistent well executed setups in order to win, therefore Sub>>>>

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I think it is pretty stupid in general that the general rogue tree gives access to all of the spec-unique cc abilities. Garrote silence should go back to assa, gouge to outlaw, and dance to sub. Between that and sub’s “poison damage” modifiers it seems like the line between sub and assa especially is getting very fuzzy.