I was kicked for defending unjustified kick.
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I got VTKd from an LFR Nerub for being afk despite the fact that the group pulled before I was in the boss arena so I got locked out. I was late because I loaded in late (it was a backfill). I saw someone call me out as afk and another person try to defend me because they could see I was running as fast as I could to the rest of the raid, but I got kicked nearly instantly.
It happens 
i dont have a problem with the vote kick system, but people who get kicked should NOT get debuffed. And yes I’ve heard the argument against what I"m saying, but I dont buy the whole “necessary evil” BS.
If you find yourself in a situation where no one wants to do a specific dungeon, then you either allow blacklisting or you give a group the option to requeue together for a different dungeon.
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Three months. That’s all it took for people to be so degenerate in dungeons that forced Blizzard to have the debuff out into place for vote kicks. Even blue posts have explained this.
Just lower it to 15 minutes.
Sendryn, you’re one of the few people who often have something to say in these forums that I actually respect. A lot of times we dont agree, but you’re never a jerk about it, which I appreciate.
Do you NOT think Occulus was poorly designed? Did you understand how often (I was a tank) I’d get that place and run into 4 other people who didnt know that last fight and we’d wipe and wipe and wipe and wipe on it until we left out of frustration? So asking to be kicked so that we can just go and do another dungeon and still get our chores done became the easier option. I have no clue why this community goes so damned hard about this.
At some point up until I dont know what expansion, you had to do daily heroics for currency. I was always geared out (I have been raiding since late BC) and that place was such a waste of time. I remmeber Blizzard added a chance to get the Malygos mount in the goody bag…they had to BRIBE us to do the place until they finally capitulated and started scaling the drakes to our gear so we could just cheese the fight.
It’s not just Oculus. Without the timer healers and tanks would have full freedom to pick and choose which instances they run if they just hold the group hostage until they’re kicked. And then that group has to sit for another ten minutes waiting for another tank/healer, unless of course the new one doesn’t like that instance either.
And it wouldn’t just limited to dungeons people wouldn’t like as well. Take for example the one dungeon with that Trinket dropped from the first boss before the season began.
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I don’t know what Sendryn you’re referring to, but if it’s this one 
, he’s probably one of the biggest antagonists I see in this forum. Argues with people for the sake of arguing, ignores people who say anything that proves him wrong, picks fights, etc.
Do you think all those “EULA” or long-winded agreements that pop up all the time are thoroughly read by everyone?
I don’t think anyone genuinely believes there are not people who do that. Those people are just contrarians or people who weaponize the system and are saying it to help gaslight others.
The problem wasn’t just Occulus. Even blue posts mentioned the other issues that occurred, not just sitting down for Occulus.
It was a myriad of things. While the sitting down for dungeons thing was prevalent, it was also the harassment of people, griefing, seeing how many groups they could troll back to back, etc.
There were a lot of factors that went into the changes. And these days, it would only get worse. They had to implement the debuff for degenerate behavior over a silly trinket, as well.
please stop using the word “hostage,” I dont think you know what that word means.
If someone asks to be kicked b/c they dont want to do the dungeon, that is a DESIGN PROBLEM of the dungeon. That means the dungeon itself is either too long compared to the others, or its too complicated/gimmicky and the perseon wanting the kick doens’t have time to teach 4 other people how to do the place. That’s all. They are not the ones who deserve to be punished. SOmeone doing this again and again in different dungeons though? Fine, you can debuff someone who was kicked more than once in a 30 minute period. First one should be free. That should hit the bases of not punishing people for petty reasons but curb the “griefing” that you people keep insisting was happening that I guess I was lucky enough to never experience.
I’ve said this before, but you could certainly allow blacklisting and this scenario solves itself. But I get the argumentative contray maries saying that wont work either. That’s when I know they’re arguing in bad faith–they think its ok to give players the power to punish each other and blindly dont think it’s being weaponized.
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Not arguing with you, but that’s the term that has been used since what they’re describing actually happened.
The definition is:
a person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition.
The tank/healer are holding the group until they fulfill their requirement of kicking them.
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It was what it was. People were holding groups hostages for a dungeon they’d entered because they didn’t like it. And this wasn’t even just limited to 1 dungeon as well. In fact, this was a huge problem Blizzard had to introduced the deserter buff from being kicked. Removing the deserter buff from VTK will see the same problem again.
In other words, as perfectly described by Blizzard, exploiting the queuing system.
okay so which other dungeons was this happening in? People only ever seem to bring up the Occulus
They bring up Oculus because that was the most outstanding example. Anecdotal, but I’ve only ever seen it in that one, and it was damn near every single time until the changes.
But again, this doesn’t mean you were wrong. If so many are THAT upset about getting that 1 dungeon because of how impractical it is with time, they need to either remove it from randoms, allow a blacklist, or change the dungeon to where people won’t want to abandon it right away.
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Ladies and gents, I have a simple solution based in basic human psychology… keep the system as is… but make it like a Gatcha where you have to read it first THEN hit yes or no. People won’t just hit yes if they have to read, cause most don’t want to read anything.
People choose the path of least resistance, it’s how we’re wired.
no. First kick should be free, then it can ramp up. The ramp up targets trolls, the first one being free protects people who are kicked b/c someone hated their transmog or were going “too slow” in a leveling dungeon (most toxic reason to kick people ever but here we are)
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Pretty much any of them. People would just decide, “Nah, I don’t want to do this one” and then bam, there’d we’d sit.
But I was also privy to the harassment and griefing from people who would literally say, “go ahead and kick me, I’ll just re-queue and keep doing it all day!” So we could never get them out of groups and it was free reign to group hop, get everyone killed, get kicked, rinse and repeat.
I think the better solution is just lower the debuff timer. It was 30 minutes to go along with the time it took to run a dungeon. But dungeons don’t take that long now. 15 seems like a better way to go.
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The good news is, short of alt hopping, the ignore feature in-game mostly solves this, you won’t be grouped with anyone you ignore, it just needs to now be Bnet based rather than per-character.
That is one case where account-wide would be beneficial. It just wouldn’t help a ton on the forums where multiboxers will just hop on another account on another email.
that is such weird behavior, and I literally NEVER saw that, but I’m a tank and most groups I joined, I completed. This weird of behavior why it might be hard to take arguments against what i’m suggesting so seriously.