Anyone want to tell this guy how that was Garithos who was part of the Alliance of Lorderon… Which ironically is the Forsaken. Who you now fight with… OH this is too good you can’t make this stuff up.
Thats not exactly neutral though is it 
If youre going to house the military of a waring nation, youve kind of signed up to the war already.
You dont let people set up their war camps if youre staying out of it.
The zandalari even had full intention of fighting the alliance alongside the horde. Thats why the horde was helping them in the first place.
Yeah… They were aiding the Alliance’s enemy.
Also actively allowing the military to operate out of their land.
Oh? You want to play this game again? Sure.
Technically still alive.
Just now Undead.
Literal villain character.
Another villain, unnoteworthy NPC character in-game.
His death was important for the narrative, same as Varian.
His character has nothing left to do in the story anyway.
Another character who’s death was important to the story.
Ironically, he died right alongside an Alliance character…
This one I’ll give you, he shouldn’t have died.
That being said, he was given plenty of stuff to do even after his death so… 
Replaced with a better character.
Died for narrative purpose as a means of building up Garrosh’s character.
He literally had nothing to him anyway.
Who?
checks WoWpedia
Oh, random NPC from War3 who they decided to reuse in a quest in DF.
So, literally just a named NPC with 0 character.
Another random NPC character from a questline.
If we want to count random NPC characters that die during questlines I can do the same thing for Alliance characters too 
Literal villain character.
Mustache-twirling villain character.
Like you mentioned previously, characters like this deserve to be punished via the story… and he was.
Technically never actually a member of the Horde, funnily enough.
If you literally knew anything about the faction that you suck-boot for, you’d know that he was always acting as a double-agent for the Legion.
Another villain character, worked for Varimathras.
Literal nothing random NPC.
Legit less than nothing.
They also sided with Garrosh…
If you remember correctly, the Horde fought them too
Died before the establishment of the New Horde.
His death was necessary to Thrall’s story of becoming Warchief and founding the New Horde.
He sacrificed himself to save the Orcs from slavery.
Died a hero, redeemed himself… Just like…
Random joke NPC character.
From a random questline in Hillsbrad.
We’ve been over this.
Another random character only created to be another henchman of Garrosh when he was evil.
So, yeah. Both Horde and Alliance killed him…
The only thing that made Broxigar ever noteworthy ever was his death.
He has nothing beyond the circumstances of how he died.
That’s literally the only thing people remember him for.
Like I said, if you want me to make my own list of random NPCs, or other ‘Alliance’ character who’ve died I can do that for you.
Believe it or not, it’d likely be the same length as yours.
Well… okay. You can have your beliefs. If it is worth quitting to you, then you should do it and leave the general discussion because you won’t find any sympathizers here.
Keep in mind, an Alliance saying this about Cairn who was replaced by Baine could be seen as Alliance saying “Cairn was replaced by a better character because his replacement is an Alliance simp”.
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Anyone who isn’t a brainrotten lobotomite, whether they’re posting with a character that has a red background or blue background would say that Baine is better.
Cairn was barely even a character, literally just a name.
In War3 he only existed as a mouth-piece to give exposition about the Tauren.
Anyone who says this unironically has a worthless opinion.
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I saw the potential for Baine, but admit that Blizzard dropped the ball with him by making him do things for the Alliance and to “benefit” the alliance at the apparent cost to Horde soldier.
I wanted Baine to be more like Cairn, but more active, More Tauren want Cairn back because, even with as little as we knew abotu him, we still have this picture that he would have not done things like exiled the Tauren who were survivors of Camp T from Thunder Bluff, he would not have let Garrosh or Sylvanas go as far as they did, he would have made it clear that while Camp T was a legitimat target, it was no reason for the Alliance to go to the extent they did, etc.
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Cairne has as much character as the outdated ‘wise Native American chief’ stereotype characters that he was shamelessly written to imitate.
i.e. none.
No Tauren has ever given this implication in the story iirc.
Unless you’re talking about yourself…
In that case, I’d respond:
You’re not a Tauren, Tauren aren’t real.
Too bad he’s dead, so we’ll never know.
Nor have we ever been shown that he would say anything.
What I’m hearing is a lot of ‘This is how I wish Carine was’ instead of telling me anything he actually did.
You’re literally just writing your own fanfiction about this character.
This confuses me. Is Baine an Alliance bootlicker or a bootlicker to Horde authority? Both?
If Baine spoke up and openly opposed the actions of Horde leadership in either Cata or BfA, people would have complained and called him a traitor. Even though I do agree it is not in his character to sit back while atrocities are committed.
He and Carine both wouldn’t have done anything differently, because Blizzard does not consider the Tauren when making writing decisions. They’re “members of the Horde” so they must do the things the Horde are doing. This is why the factions are a limiter to worldbuilding, if they must be all encompassing they’re harmful.
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A lot of Tauren/Horde PLAYERS still do because he was written as, in their minds,
Because they made him one of Anduin’s best friends. As well as made any show of him in Cata/MoP/BFA be aiding alliance at the cost of Horde
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Just will never understand this. Let characters be independent of their sports team, I can’t bring myself to care even slightly about this. I’m cool with it, even.
Wanting peace = bootlicker.
Maybe those players are just stupid.
So when the Horde was unabashedly being written as the bad guys?
The same Horde that you said you wanted Baine to ‘stand up to’? Like you think Cairne would?
Also, not sure what he did to help the Alliance during Cata?
Got an example?
Cata timer period, but maybe not Cata, proper (ToW novel/MoP pre-patch) the one thing most point out here is how he warned Jaina about the coming attack on Theramore
Pretty much, I think what sets most people off is instead of taking care of it himself, and be a traitor more like Saurfang or Vol’jin could be considered, or like Cairn did with Garrosh over the Ashenvale situation (which lead to the fight with Garrosh that, due to Magatha’s interference, lead to Cairn’s death) he was seen more as going to the Alliance.
Keep in mind, I do see Baine as a good character, just as one not properly written in game. I find this more because whenever he has been given a bit of spot light, it is either helping alliance (in the case of faction war story) or needing help/saved from his own incompetence (SL) or nature when dealing with certain, non-faction affiliated, races (the centaur in DF).
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Warned Jaina of the Warcraft equivalent of a nuke being dropped on her city…
Not really sure why you see Baine trying to save innocent civilians living in Theramore as ‘detrimental’ to the Horde but whatever I guess.
This one dude, who has control over one tribe was going to rebel against the Horde?
Sure, that would’ve been interesting to see… But the gameplay logistics, along with how Blizzard ‘balances’ these kind of factional story beats would’ve made doing that impossibe.
I can agree that what they did with Baine wasn’t good. But my argument has always been that he’s a better character than Cairne was. Which, just by the benefit of him actually doing literally anything during his time on-screen would seem to strengthen that point.
Also, I want to point out that unlike Saurfang, who wanted to initiate more conflict and civil war. Baine, wanted to lessen the amount of conflict and casualties. I mean, isn’t one of the little character traits that Blizzard tacks-on to Tauren ‘peaceful’ or ‘peace-loving’? Seems like it’d make sense for him to try and work with the Alliance to try and stop the conflict and not just brew more conflict.
Especially when, like, Baine and the Tauren really have no reason to hate the Alliance or fight them… At least not since Cata, I guess.
Then we agree on him being better than Cairne.
I don’t even think he’s a good character.
At best, he’s a name they toss around, which is more than his father.
I mean, the whole point of that questline was to show Baine’s generational trauma and hatred towards the centaur.
He dealt with this attack on his people personally, as an individual.
Really doesn’t show incompetence, at least not to me.
The Centaur are a special case. My guess is that he wouldn’t have acted anything like this if it wasn’t centaur specifically.
Baind did not know about the mana bomb, but everything else you said here is accurate. As far as “detrimental” to the Horde? some see the warning as a way to shore up Theramore defenses and the like, make it harder/more costly for the Horde to take down via normal attack/siege (which is what Baine was expecting).
Yeah, but I think some forget that the Tauren also have the aspect of knowing when talking has failed and it is time for action. In other words, they are not peaceful/peace-loving out of hating violence but out of preferring to exhaust all other options first.
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Did it fail yet, though?
Iirc they literally just entered the talking phase, and then Sylvanas went full villain, the fourth war ended, and we moved on to SL.
Most of the expac consisted of Baine debating whether he wanted to do something… And when he finally did it was towards the very end.
He hardly even began talking with them before it was over, far from even seeing that it failed.
If anything, it seemed like the talking was working.
No, but I put that in there to more illistrate that Tauren are not like orcs or other members of the Horde which could be more “talk is cheep, actions speak louder” before running ogg and drawing the factions into another war.
To put it another way, I think some might have been placated if, in response to camp T, Baine kept his “legitimate target” stance, but also stated that any more actions against such camps or locations would be repaid in kind.
In essence, the faction war writing hurt Baine and the Tauren in general because they are best when cooler heads prevail in the Horde and they are one of a handful of voices of reason, not so much when such voices are denounced as traitors or alliance you-know-whats.
But according to your own words you play horde… so tell me do you really win my friend? Do you?
Horde tears are my favorite drink.
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All I can say is
“Just shut up”